| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Please remove this unwanted "feature" (TM-Town export) Thread poster: Tom in London
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 11:12
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
As Michael says, the profile data being made available on the TM-Town website only applies to "P" holders. Whether or not the data has been physically copied there is irrelevant, I feel. The very concept of "copy" has changed dramatically in my lifetime as the very idea of "original" has been lost. To my mind, if someone arrives at a website looking for a translator, and finds all my details - name, specialisations, services... - plus a link to another page where there's even more info (i.e. her... See more As Michael says, the profile data being made available on the TM-Town website only applies to "P" holders. Whether or not the data has been physically copied there is irrelevant, I feel. The very concept of "copy" has changed dramatically in my lifetime as the very idea of "original" has been lost. To my mind, if someone arrives at a website looking for a translator, and finds all my details - name, specialisations, services... - plus a link to another page where there's even more info (i.e. here), that is sufficient grounds for me to believe that my details have been copied to that other site. How it works behind the scenes is of no interest.
Henry Dotterer wrote:
Hi Sheila. I don't know if my prior reply to you was clear enough, but strictly speaking, your profile would / should not be copied by any site using ProZ.com's API. The API works like directory search... only information that anyone could get by going to your profile (and in fact much less) is available through the API.
So does that mean that my profile details should NOT have been appearing on https://www.tm-town.com/ ? I do see a world of difference between receiving what I believe to be unsolicited emails via ProZ.com, and actually appearing to have endorsed some site that I've never even heard of. Have you checked to see whether the terms of your agreement are being upheld?
Also, how do I find out which other companies have taken my details for use in similar or different ways? I've opted out now, but can I be sure that the damage has not already been done? Do we actually get to be told which companies are using this API facility?
The main concern I have though, in relation to the title of this particular thread, is that the incitement to share TMs is being made and looks like continuing to be made. Opting out may be fine for us who wouldn't use it anyway (but then, what's the point?). What good will it do those who didn't understand what it was all about and thought they ought to go along with it as ProZ.com were endorsing it? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Making data available elsewhere | Aug 4, 2015 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: Henry Dotterer wrote:
Strictly speaking, your profile would / should not be copied by any site using ProZ.com's API. The API works like directory search... So does that mean that my profile details should NOT have been appearing on https://www.tm-town.com/ ?
Yes, but if I understand correctly, your profile did not appear on TM Town after all. What appeared on TM Town was simply a link to your ProZ.com profile.
Whether or not the data has been physically copied there is irrelevant, I feel.
I understand your frustration at what seems like a loss of control over information, as similar things happen on other web sites these days -- it is as if one can no longer control on which web site what information about oneself is displayed.
To my mind, if someone arrives at a website looking for a translator, and finds all my details - name, specialisations, services... - plus a link to another page where there's even more info (i.e. here), that is sufficient grounds for me to believe that my details have been copied to that other site.
Well, certain details from your profile have been copied, yes, but your initial complaint was that your entire profile had been copied, and I'm glad that that misunderstanding is now sorted out. TM Town has no more access to your profile information than humans do who use the ProZ.com directory search feature, or even than Google when it indexes your profile for inclusion in search results.
I do agree that the way TM Town represents the information creates the impression that translators who come up in the search are translators who have registered with TM Town.
Also, how do I find out which other companies have taken my details for use in similar or different ways?
This is a good question -- I think members and users have a right to know which companies have API access.
The main concern I have though ... is that the incitement to share TMs is being made and looks like continuing to be made.
Except that (1) TM Town is not about sharing TMs (it doesn't share TMs nor does it currently provide any functionality that allows translators to share TMs even if they want to).
And (2) the feature mentioned in the thread title is not about sharing TMs, but sharing sample translations.
[Edited at 2015-08-04 15:32 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 11:12
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
The main concern I have though ... is that the incitement to share TMs is being made and looks like continuing to be made. Except that (1) TM Town is not about sharing TMs (it doesn't share TMs nor does it currently provide any functionality that allows translators to share TMs even if they want to). And (2) the feature mentioned in the thread title is not about sharing TMs, but sharing sample translations.
I guess I have to accept that (1) is true in the light of what Kevin has stated here, even though more or less the first words on the TM-Town home page are:
Welcome to TM-Town -- the place for freelance translators to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries -- and maybe meet some new clients while doing so.
As for (2), those samples are supposed to be examples of our work. So I imagine they count as our TUs, although they wouldn't be the totality of a TM.
| | | | ..... (X)
Local time: 19:12
Hi Sheila,
Just to clear up any confusion on sharing on TM-Town. TMs can not be made public or shared publicly; however, there is a feature to share a specific document you have uploaded with another member of TM-Town. The point of this feature would be if you are collaborating with a translator on a project. This feature can also be used with the CafeTran integration so that a translator can work sim... See more Hi Sheila,
Just to clear up any confusion on sharing on TM-Town. TMs can not be made public or shared publicly; however, there is a feature to share a specific document you have uploaded with another member of TM-Town. The point of this feature would be if you are collaborating with a translator on a project. This feature can also be used with the CafeTran integration so that a translator can work simultaneously with another translator on shared TM in real-time from within CafeTran.
There is no option though to make a TM public or share a TM publicly.
Kevin ▲ Collapse
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 11:12
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| That clears that up then | Aug 4, 2015 |
Kevin Dias wrote: Just to clear up any confusion on sharing on TM-Town. TMs can not be made public or shared publicly; however, there is a feature to share a specific document you have uploaded with another member of TM-Town.
Thanks for the clarification.
| | | | | On knowing who is using the API | Aug 5, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
Also, how do I find out which other companies have taken my details for use in similar or different ways This is a good question -- I think members and users have a right to know which companies have API access.
Hm. Let me explain a bit more about the API and then get your opinion. I agree that it makes sense for members to be able to know which API users are "republishing" (if that is the right word) public profile data. And of course to be able to opt out of that, generally, and on a "republisher"-specific basis.
But not everyone who uses the API displays the results of API searches to others... when a company is just accessing the directory remotely (say from their TMS system, out of convenience when they need to add translators to their projects), I don't think that is much different in principle from the case where they navigate to ProZ.com and then search manually. In such cases, obviously no one is informed of who is searching and it has never been an issue. Furthermore, I can imagine that some would not like their identities to be disclosed, and I think it is only appropriate to respect that.
So many the thing to do is to clearly define what it means to republish? (OK to show internal employees but not others?) Thoughts?
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Henry Dotterer wrote:
.....And of course to be able to opt out of that, generally, and on a "republisher"-specific basis....Thoughts?
Being opted **out** should be the default setting for all of these things. It should be the user who decides to opt **in**. That is normal practice for all websites.
I would also STRONGLY prefer these things not to show up as colourful banners in my personal "user only" view. They're a nuisance. Why can't they be put a click away, in a separate section that I only visit**if I want to**? I fear that over time my private profile page may become invaded with large numbers of these things, all urging me to click on them.
[Edited at 2015-08-05 09:30 GMT]
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Tom in London wrote: Henry Dotterer wrote:
.....And of course to be able to opt out of that, generally, and on a "republisher"-specific basis....Thoughts? Being opted **out** should be the default setting for all of these things. It should be the user who decides to opt **in**. That is normal practice for all websites.
Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. What the API provides is a way to search the directory remotely. We do not have an "opt-in" for appearing the directory. (Now that I think about it, we may not even have an opt out!)
I would also STRONGLY prefer these things not to show up as colourful banners in my personal "user only" view. They're a nuisance. Why can't they be put a click away, in a separate section that I only visit**if I want to**? I fear that over time my private profile page may become invaded with large numbers of these things, all urging me to click on them.
Point taken!
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Henry Dotterer wrote:
Let me explain a bit more about the API and then get your opinion.
Can anyone use the API or must one apply for an API key? And what is required of those who are awarded the API key (if any)?
But not everyone who uses the API displays the results of API searches to others... Furthermore, I can imagine that some would not like their identities to be disclosed...
So many the thing to do is to clearly define what it means to republish?
I make the following suggestions:
1. Add another parameter to the API in which API users indicate whether the data is for republication (and, of course, using the data otherwise would then be a violation of the agreement).
2. Define republication as: (a) any display of the results in a publically accessible place, OR (b) any display of the results in a restricted access place where it would not be immediately clear to the casual observer that the results are not sourced from a third party web site but relate to data that is owned by the site or service that displays it.
3. In the API opt-out section of the user's settings, add the option to be included in API results used for republication.
4. Redesign the API out-out section in such a way that users must select something, and then make it part of the "profile completeness" percentage. In other words, perhaps add a button "I have read and understood the API settings", and if the user hasn't clicked it, then his profile is not considered 100% completed.
5. By default, all users/members of ProZ.com are automatically included in all API features, until they select the option to opt out.
I see currently the API opt-out settings tab only allows users to select not to be included in directory searches and not to receive messages, but if I understand correctly the API allows two more actions that may impact users, namely (a) display of the user's actual profile page and (b) query about whether the user is currently logged in to ProZ.com, and if so, what his e-mail address is. It would be nice to be able to opt out of those as well.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Samuel Murray wrote:
.....currently the API opt-out settings tab only allows users to select not to be included in directory searches ....
Does this mean that if I opt out I will not be found when people Google for an Italian to English translator?
[Edited at 2015-08-05 13:56 GMT]
| | | | | Plain cheeky!! | Aug 6, 2015 |
Kevin Dias wrote:
I am happy to remove anyone else that requests the same. As Henry mentioned in the other thread, it is also possible to change your settings on ProZ.com to not appear in the API results.
I have opted out right now from Proz.com's API, whose existance I was never made aware of! "Thanks" Proz.com! :-/
As every conscious service provider, I think very carefully about where and how I advertise my services. Including my details --no matter how they land on your website, either live from Proz.com or copied-- without my consent and without even letting me know is plain cheeky, to say the least.
My customers know of my firm commitment to privacy. What would they think if they saw my details in a website about sharing TMs and glossaries?
If there is anything else you from TM-Town need to do to opt me out forever from your website, please do so.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Kevin Dias wrote:
I am happy to remove anyone else that requests the same. As Henry mentioned in the other thread, it is also possible to change your settings on ProZ.com to not appear in the API results. I have opted out right now from Proz.com's API, whose existance I was never made aware of! "Thanks" Proz.com! :-/ As every conscious service provider, I think very carefully about where and how I advertise my services. Including my details --no matter how they land on your website, either live from Proz.com or copied-- without my consent and without even letting me know is plain cheeky, to say the least. My customers know of my firm commitment to privacy. What would they think if they saw my details in a website about sharing TMs and glossaries? If there is anything else you from TM-Town need to do to opt me out forever from your website, please do so.
Me too please. Well said, Tomás !
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| Not acceptable - We should be all opt-outs as default | Aug 6, 2015 |
Henry Dotterer wrote: The API's have been available for many years, but it is only recently (this year) that they have begun to be used significantly. Your posting, and the recent increase in activity (at TM-Town, Motaword, etc.), makes me realize that now would be a good time to remind/inform all of our members of the existence of the API's, and the option to opt out -- which is here: http://www.proz.com/?sp=settings_tpx_api (We have the option to opt out entirely now, we will be adding the option to opt out on a partner by partner basis.)
Sorry Henry, but the way I see it, this is clearly wrong. If you check Proz.com's Privacy policy, in theory we have to specifically opt-in for our personal details to be shared with third parties.
The only sensible action right now would be to mark all Proz.com users as opted out from the API, inform us (with a formal email) all about why do you think we should opt in, and let us decide. Opting us all in by default violates the site's Privacy policy.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
.....we have to specifically opt-in for our personal details to be shared with third parties....
I am fairly certain that this is in fact a legal requirement. I think the general principle in EU law is that personal data must not be used for unauthorised purposes without *prior* consent. You'd have to be informed, upon becoming a new member of Proz, or in the form of a specific personal email update to existing members, that your personal information might be provided to third parties or used by them, with the option of ticking an "agree" or "disagree" box. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult for Proz to include that. For now, I've used the opt-our provided by Henry but I'm not happy that I only found out about the TM.town thing by chance, and that other third-party things may be added in future. I suggest we need a clearly visible *global* opt-out or opt-in, somewhere prominent on each Member's private view, where these add-ons and what they do are clearly explained.
[Edited at 2015-08-06 17:40 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Tom in London wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
...currently the API opt-out settings tab only allows users to select not to be included in directory searches... Does this mean that if I opt out I will not be found when people Google for an Italian to English translator?
No, the API has nothing to do with Google.
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