May 19, 2020 12:58
3 yrs ago
51 viewers *
Spanish term
soberanos
Spanish to English
Social Sciences
Government / Politics
In reference to 19th-century Argentine president Sarmiento;
No era secreta la admiración que sentía por Estados Unidos: en sus viajes a Norteamérica recorrió los establecimientos carcelarios y trajo maestras para “educar a los soberanos”.
educate the countrymen??
Thanks
No era secreta la admiración que sentía por Estados Unidos: en sus viajes a Norteamérica recorrió los establecimientos carcelarios y trajo maestras para “educar a los soberanos”.
educate the countrymen??
Thanks
Proposed translations
(English)
References
Some background fwiw | AllegroTrans |
Proposed translations
+3
10 mins
Selected
(sovereign) citizens
Una opción :)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
patinba
13 mins
|
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Have you anything to support such a high confidence level?
38 mins
|
agree |
philgoddard
55 mins
|
agree |
EirTranslations
5 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks"
+1
48 mins
sovereign people
Los soberanos alude aquí a los "individuos que conforman el pueblo soberano". Podría perfectamente sustituirse por "educar al pueblo soberano", si bien el original quiere personalizar un grado este concepto, aludiendo específicamente a los sujetos individuales que conforman ese pueblo soberano. No obstante, la acción de Sarmiento como presidente no será tanto educar a sus individuos (aunque sí indirectamente) como educar al pueblo en general, a todos ellos, lo que apoyaría el uso de "pueblo soberano" (sovereign people).
En fin, en caso de no respetar ese matiz del original en referencia a los individuos particulares (que conforman el pueblo soberano), podría aludirse a (the) sovereign people. A literal translation does not seem to work well in English ("educate the sovereigns"), as it sounds as if Sarmiento wanted to educate some kings. And there seems not to be an alternative word that conveys the original idea.
"The Sovereign Citizens" are sort of a sect in the US. And so, well, I guess (the) sovereign people must do.
En fin, en caso de no respetar ese matiz del original en referencia a los individuos particulares (que conforman el pueblo soberano), podría aludirse a (the) sovereign people. A literal translation does not seem to work well in English ("educate the sovereigns"), as it sounds as if Sarmiento wanted to educate some kings. And there seems not to be an alternative word that conveys the original idea.
"The Sovereign Citizens" are sort of a sect in the US. And so, well, I guess (the) sovereign people must do.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
philgoddard
: There is no risk of confusion with a 21st-century American movement that most people have never heard of.
43 mins
|
The good thing about sovereign people is that it conveys both the reference to pueblo soberano and to los individuos soberanos. Sorry about the freak note; I may be the only one to feel there is a difference between sovereign citizens and sovereign people
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: But just who are "sovereign people" in the context of prisons?
21 hrs
|
Hi Allegro, those are two fully independent clauses actually (in spite of their proximity); he looked at the flowers and bought some milk. The teachers Sarmiento brought to Argentina had nothing to do with his visiting prisons or with educating prisoners.
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agree |
Marcelo González
: yes, meaning *the sovereign people of his country* -- el pueblo soberano, como señalas también
2 days 11 hrs
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Muchas gracias, Marcelo, y sí, creo que tanto pueblo (the people) como pueblo soberano (the sovereign people) son lecturas ajustadas en este caso.
|
4 hrs
commander prisoners
file:///C:/Users/pc/Pictures/URIEL/Dialnet-CuandoLosPresosMandanControlInformalDentroDeLaCarc-5300448.pdf
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Prisoners are commanders? of what exactly?
2 hrs
|
neutral |
Taña Dalglish
: How is this relevant? http://bibliotecadigital.academia.cl/bitstream/handle/123456... (Articulo: Cuando los presos mandan: control informal dentro de la cárcel venezolana)
1 day 12 hrs
|
+2
4 hrs
authorities// in charge
Those under his command with positions of authority. In this case I suppose he wanted to educate those in charge of prisons.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Adrian MM.
: the people (or: -----) in charge / who call the (gulp!) shots https://eng.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/music/5271181-...
3 hrs
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Thank you, Adrian. It's the only thing that makes sense in this context, IMO
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agree |
AllegroTrans
: I agree that this ideas make sense. I cannot see what "sovereign people" can mean in the context of prisons
17 hrs
|
Agreed. Thanks.
|
+1
8 hrs
leaders in my own country
I don't think the "sovereign" concept needs to be taken literally.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2020-05-19 21:53:30 GMT)
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If the phrase is actually in quotation marks in your original, I don't think they apply with this translation. The quotes would imply a tinge of irony or sarcasm, suggesting that those at high levels think they already know the answers.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2020-05-19 21:55:39 GMT)
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If the phrase is in quotation marks in the original, they may suggest some irony - i.e., that the high-ups think they know all the answers. But I don't think quotes would work in the translation unless you used them only around "educate".
-- Unless you added them to highlight your question, in which case forget about what I just said.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2020-05-19 21:53:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
If the phrase is actually in quotation marks in your original, I don't think they apply with this translation. The quotes would imply a tinge of irony or sarcasm, suggesting that those at high levels think they already know the answers.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2020-05-19 21:55:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
If the phrase is in quotation marks in the original, they may suggest some irony - i.e., that the high-ups think they know all the answers. But I don't think quotes would work in the translation unless you used them only around "educate".
-- Unless you added them to highlight your question, in which case forget about what I just said.
+1
2 days 12 hrs
his countrymen
following Wendy's suggestion, and Chema's discussion of 'pueblo soberano'
It seems to be just another (more formal) way to refer to his (fellow) countrymen.
It seems to be just another (more formal) way to refer to his (fellow) countrymen.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
AllegroTrans
: Credible
22 hrs
|
Yes, I think it works just fine: 'to educate his countrymen' :-) Thanks and cheers!
|
Reference comments
46 mins
Reference:
Some background fwiw
Domingo Faustino Sarmiento
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Domingo F. Sarmiento
Sarmiento.jpg
Sarmiento in 1874
President of Argentina
In office
October 12, 1868 – October 11, 1874
Vice President Adolfo Alsina
Preceded by Bartolomé Mitre
Succeeded by Nicolás Avellaneda
Minister of Foreign Affairs and Worship
In office
September 6, 1879 – October 9, 1879
President Nicolás Avellaneda
Preceded by Manuel Montes de Oca
Succeeded by Lucas González
Minister of the Interior
In office
August 29, 1879 – October 9, 1879
President Nicolás Avellaneda
Preceded by Bernardo de Irigoyen
Succeeded by Benjamín Zorrilla
Governor of San Juan
In office
January 3, 1862 – April 9, 1864
Preceded by Francisco Díaz
Succeeded by Santiago Lloveras
Personal details
Born February 15, 1811
San Juan, Argentina
Died September 11, 1888 (aged 77)
Asunción, Paraguay
Nationality Argentine
Political party Liberal
Spouse(s) Benita Martínez Pastoriza
(m. 1847–1857); separated
Domestic partner Aurelia Vélez Sársfield
(1857–1888); his death
Children Ana Faustina[a]
Domingo Fidel[b]
Signature
Military service
Allegiance Argentina
Branch/service Argentine Army emblem.svg Argentine Army
Years of service 1834–1863
Rank GD-EA.png Divisional General
Domingo Faustino Sarmiento (February 15, 1811 – September 11, 1888) was an Argentine activist, intellectual, writer, statesman and the seventh President of Argentina. His writing spanned a wide range of genres and topics, from journalism to autobiography, to political philosophy and history. He was a member of a group of intellectuals, known as the Generation of 1837, who had a great influence on nineteenth-century Argentina. He was particularly concerned with educational issues and was also an important influence on the region's literature.
Sarmiento grew up in a poor but politically active family that paved the way for much of his future accomplishments. Between 1843 and 1850 he was frequently in exile, and wrote in both Chile and in Argentina. His greatest literary achievement was Facundo, a critique of Juan Manuel de Rosas, that Sarmiento wrote while working for the newspaper El Progreso during his exile in Chile. The book brought him far more than just literary recognition; he expended his efforts and energy on the war against dictatorships, specifically that of Rosas, and contrasted enlightened Europe—a world where, in his eyes, democracy, social services, and intelligent thought were valued—with the barbarism of the gaucho and especially the caudillo, the ruthless strongmen of nineteenth-century Argentina.
While president of Argentina from 1868 to 1874, Sarmiento championed intelligent thought—including education for children and women—and democracy for Latin America. He also took advantage of the opportunity to modernize and develop train systems, a postal system, and a comprehensive education system. He spent many years in ministerial roles on the federal and state levels where he travelled abroad and examined other education systems.
Sarmiento died in Asunción, Paraguay, at the age of 77 from a heart attack. He was buried in Buenos Aires. Today, he is respected as a political innovator and writer. Miguel de Unamuno considered him among the greatest writers of Castilian prose.[1]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
Domingo F. Sarmiento
Sarmiento.jpg
Sarmiento in 1874
President of Argentina
In office
October 12, 1868 – October 11, 1874
Vice President Adolfo Alsina
Preceded by Bartolomé Mitre
Succeeded by Nicolás Avellaneda
Minister of Foreign Affairs and Worship
In office
September 6, 1879 – October 9, 1879
President Nicolás Avellaneda
Preceded by Manuel Montes de Oca
Succeeded by Lucas González
Minister of the Interior
In office
August 29, 1879 – October 9, 1879
President Nicolás Avellaneda
Preceded by Bernardo de Irigoyen
Succeeded by Benjamín Zorrilla
Governor of San Juan
In office
January 3, 1862 – April 9, 1864
Preceded by Francisco Díaz
Succeeded by Santiago Lloveras
Personal details
Born February 15, 1811
San Juan, Argentina
Died September 11, 1888 (aged 77)
Asunción, Paraguay
Nationality Argentine
Political party Liberal
Spouse(s) Benita Martínez Pastoriza
(m. 1847–1857); separated
Domestic partner Aurelia Vélez Sársfield
(1857–1888); his death
Children Ana Faustina[a]
Domingo Fidel[b]
Signature
Military service
Allegiance Argentina
Branch/service Argentine Army emblem.svg Argentine Army
Years of service 1834–1863
Rank GD-EA.png Divisional General
Domingo Faustino Sarmiento (February 15, 1811 – September 11, 1888) was an Argentine activist, intellectual, writer, statesman and the seventh President of Argentina. His writing spanned a wide range of genres and topics, from journalism to autobiography, to political philosophy and history. He was a member of a group of intellectuals, known as the Generation of 1837, who had a great influence on nineteenth-century Argentina. He was particularly concerned with educational issues and was also an important influence on the region's literature.
Sarmiento grew up in a poor but politically active family that paved the way for much of his future accomplishments. Between 1843 and 1850 he was frequently in exile, and wrote in both Chile and in Argentina. His greatest literary achievement was Facundo, a critique of Juan Manuel de Rosas, that Sarmiento wrote while working for the newspaper El Progreso during his exile in Chile. The book brought him far more than just literary recognition; he expended his efforts and energy on the war against dictatorships, specifically that of Rosas, and contrasted enlightened Europe—a world where, in his eyes, democracy, social services, and intelligent thought were valued—with the barbarism of the gaucho and especially the caudillo, the ruthless strongmen of nineteenth-century Argentina.
While president of Argentina from 1868 to 1874, Sarmiento championed intelligent thought—including education for children and women—and democracy for Latin America. He also took advantage of the opportunity to modernize and develop train systems, a postal system, and a comprehensive education system. He spent many years in ministerial roles on the federal and state levels where he travelled abroad and examined other education systems.
Sarmiento died in Asunción, Paraguay, at the age of 77 from a heart attack. He was buried in Buenos Aires. Today, he is respected as a political innovator and writer. Miguel de Unamuno considered him among the greatest writers of Castilian prose.[1]
Discussion
Si te fijas en el enlace previo que hace alusión específica a las maestras estadounidenses que Sarmiento llevó a la Argentina, creo que el sentido de los soberanos, en tanto que referencia al pueblo, a la gente, al pueblo soberano, parece clara.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domingo_Faustino_Sarmiento
Educar al soberano, a compilation of letters written from 1870 to 1886 on the topic of improved education, promoting and suggesting new reforms such as secondary schools, parks, sporting fields and specialty schools. This compilation was met with far greater success than Ortografía, Instrucción Publica and received greater public support.[67]
Crowley, Francis G. (1972), Domingo Faustino Sarmiento, New York: Twayne.
Educandoal soberano - Ultima Horawww.ultimahora.com › educandoal-s...
Sep 18, 2011 - Estos soberanos tenían el poder absoluto para disponer de los bienes y de ... Inspirado en estas ideas, el argentino Domingo Faustino Sarmiento, ... Por no "educar al soberano", la mayoría de las naciones latinoamericanas, ...
http://necgaistucad.over-blog.com/2020-03/obras-de-d.-f.-sar...
https://readmybook.ru/books_new?descr_id=8185697&source=necg...
Download Obras de D. F. Sarmiento... : Educar Al Soberano ...necgaistucad.over-blog.com › obras-...
Mar 29, 2020 - Educar al soberano: Domingo Faustino Sarmiento €” Su n 2011 la Junta de ... De generales a conquistadores de pueblos y, al fin, a soberanos absolutos de ellos. ... Santiago de *****Educar al soberano [Educating the Leader].***
Entre los 10 (...) y los 18 años, hay que educar a los soberanos. Los pibes silvestres están en edad de escolarización obligatoria, por eso los gendarmes en muchas situaciones, asumen una patria potestad feroz
http://colectivojuguetesperdidos.blogspot.com/2013/09/servic...
... no solamente es cuestión de educar a los soberanos, sino educarnos a nosotros mismos
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...
Edificar rampas para personas con discapacidad en todos los medios de transporte del país. Para ello se gestiona a través de la extensión universitaria de las facultades, construyendo una red. Educar a los soberanos, que haya idoneidad de los funcionarios.
http://archivo.cta.org.ar/Rescates-de-Nuestra-Memoria-III.ht...
Todos sabemos que Sarmiento trajo maestras norteamericanas para llevar adelante la apertura de escuelas normales como parte fundamental de su proyecto educativo. Sarmiento buscaba la profesionalización de la enseñanza y con ello la consiguiente mejora en la educación.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://...