Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Sep 2, 2016:

Points Usually, when there are two or more answers that I would very much like to give points to, I look at the leaders table give the points to the colleague furthest down the list. This was an excellent and enlightening discussion, and I thank you all for your, as always, professional input.

Helen Shiner Aug 31, 2016:

Björn Sorry, but I just don't have the time to continue this conversation. Ramey has found her answer, at least that is how I read her post.

Michael Martin, MA Aug 31, 2016:

Through the lense of I think it's a great suggestion!

Björn Vrooman Aug 31, 2016:

"I didn't say it was simple or basic."
- To be fair, I didn't say that either (thus, "as...as it may").

Sociology was my field of studies, so I think I know what you're trying to say. While I don't agree with Michael's "awareness," I think he has a point when he says "If that's all the author wanted to convey, there are simpler ways of doing that in German." Word use is much more important in sociology than, say, in chemistry because of the discipline's theoretical foundation (rooted in culture and linguistics as opposed to formulas and rules).

"My point was to steer Ramey away from a poetic interpretation."
Don't disagree. I apologize if I wasn't clear enough. I did say I'd leave the suggestions up to you and Paul. I'm curious, though, what verb you'd use together with "viewpoint," since you can hardly repeat "view" again.

Also curious what you both think about "through the lense of."

Thank you

Best wishes

Helen Shiner Aug 31, 2016:

Björn I didn't say it was simple or basic. I said 'fairly basic'. Thank you, however, for demonstrating with all your examples, the term's use in so many prosaic contexts. I translate sociological and other academic texts frequently, where it occurs with great regularity. The author is writing here at that sort of level. Within that context, yes, fairly basic. I'm sure it occurs often in journalistic contexts, too. My point was to steer Ramey away from a poetic interpretation, as Paul had also tried to do.

Björn Vrooman Aug 31, 2016:

Compare:
"Interpretieren wir aus dem Erfahrungshorizont einer westlichen Industriegesellschaft, daß die permanente Umweltkrise Reaktionen bei"
https://books.google.de/books?id=Zp2mBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA...

"und diskutierten das Thema 'Konstruktion von Raum' einmal historisch–analytisch, zum anderen aus dem Erfahrungshorizont einer auf neue und experimentelle Konstruktionen gerichteten eigenen Praxis."
http://www.habitat-design.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/f26/downloa...

It get's even better:
"sondern dessen tieferen transzendentalen Bedingungs- und Sinnhorizont, der nicht mehr universal vermittelbar sein mag, zu erschließen."
https://www.uni-erfurt.de/fileadmin/user-docs/Sozialethik/Do...

I'll leave the suggestions up to you and Paul (especially whether it makes a difference if you replace "Horizont" by "Erfahrungshorizont"; not fond of "perspective"), but this actually isn't as basic or simple as it may sound, IMO.

Björn Vrooman Aug 31, 2016:

@Helen "of what is a fairly basic German phrase"
As a native speaker of German, I'm not sure I can agree.

"Aus dem Horizont einer Lebenswelt können die kommunikativ Handelnden erst gar nicht heraustreten."
https://books.google.de/books?id=X46QrZQAWxsC&pg=PA380&lpg=P...

"mit einer Verstehensweise, die sich auf Cassirer beruft, aus dem Horizont einer einzigen Kultur auszubrechen und zu einer interkulturellen Betrachtungsweise"
https://books.google.de/books?id=6UyRnY1sQ1gC&pg=PA183&lpg=P...

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Aug 31, 2016:

Okay If you feel so strongly about it, I'll reconsider. Thanks for the support!

Helen Shiner Aug 31, 2016:

Ramey Perspective, viewpoint, vantage point - all good.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Aug 31, 2016:

Preferrable? We view these blocks from the perspective of our common - universal - neo-progressive history, be it of the socialist variety, of the free-market capitalist US American variety or of the North European welfare state sort.

Helen Shiner Aug 31, 2016:

Poetry I also find it a poetic rendering of what is a fairly basic German phrase. Poetry is your forte, Ramey, but I'm really sorry to have to agree with Paul, that it is a mistranslation here. Echoing Paul with the aim of helping you ...

Paul Cohen Aug 31, 2016:

Sounds poetic I don't think we talk about viewing things from a personal or collective horizon. It sounds poetic and perhaps paradoxical in English to use the word this way, and I don't think that's the author's intention. In that sense, (groan), it borders on a mistranslation, in my opinion.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Aug 31, 2016:

Dear Everyone I thank you all for the strong support. I know some of you will groan, but from my experience with this author and these texts, I have come to the following final translation:
We view these blocks from the horizon of our experience, from our common - universal - neo-progressive history, be it of the socialist variety, of the free-market capitalist US American variety or of the North European welfare state sort.

Happy translating!

Björn Vrooman Aug 30, 2016:

To help you decide Second meaning in the Duden comes closest (I think you alluded to it in your question):
"geistiger Bereich, den jemand überblickt und in dem er ein Urteilsvermögen besitzt"
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Horizont

One synonym: Blickfeld

It looks to me as if this could be short for "Erfahrungshorizont" here (which makes sense, considering the subsequent "gemeinsamen Geschichte"). In short: Similar experiences because of a shared history have us see certain things in the same light - doesn't matter whether you're from Berlin or Boston.

Helen Shiner Aug 30, 2016:

Ramey I hope you feel better tomorrow.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Aug 30, 2016:

Hi Helen I think I'm having one of those days where everything sounds odd and inappropriate. My dyslexia is creating one typing error after the other, and I'm going nowhere at top speed. Thanks for the pointer. I'm going to sleep on it - tomorrow HAS to be better.

Helen Shiner Aug 30, 2016:

Ramey 'aus' here means 'from', as we have all suggested. I think the term 'awareness' is taking you away from the meaning.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Aug 30, 2016:

awareness We understand these blocks WITH the awareness of our common - universal - neo-progressive history...
the preposition AUS has been driving me nuts. What say you (all)?