Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Japanese term or phrase:
「文法は嫌です」。
English translation:
"I hate grammar."
Added to glossary by
Shinya Ono
Jul 2, 2002 07:02
21 yrs ago
Japanese term
United States
「文法は嫌です」。
Japanese to English
Art/Literary
Linguistics
grammar
With this example, could someone explain the most accepted way of using comma and period, on on hand, and quotation mark, on the other, in American usage. I always thought the period comes before the quotation mark, but WORD disagrees apparently.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | "I hate grammar." |
John Senior (X)
|
| 4 | "I hate grammar." |
Philip Soldini
|
| 4 | Always inside. |
Pro-Japanese
|
| 4 | There are rules, but there is no court of law. |
Roddy Stegemann
|
Proposed translations
+2
17 mins
Selected
"I hate grammar."
Assuming this is the whole sentence, this is the accepted form in both American and British usage, so WORD should not have had a problem.
American style (according to the Chicago style manual) is to ALWAYS put periods and commas inside quotation marks, whereas British style is to put them inside if they belong to what's inside the quotes, outside if they belong to the sentence as a whole. In this case, the period goes with what's inside the quotes.
An example of a sentence where U.S. and British styles would differ is:
U.S.: He sang a song called "I Hate Grammar."
UK: He sang a song called "I Hate Grammar".
American style (according to the Chicago style manual) is to ALWAYS put periods and commas inside quotation marks, whereas British style is to put them inside if they belong to what's inside the quotes, outside if they belong to the sentence as a whole. In this case, the period goes with what's inside the quotes.
An example of a sentence where U.S. and British styles would differ is:
U.S.: He sang a song called "I Hate Grammar."
UK: He sang a song called "I Hate Grammar".
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: " Your response was well-balanced, with a concise explanation of British as well as U.S. styles, which is important when so much seems to be run by the U.S. (Even for a Japanese-American.) Now, I can try to use the British rule in documents intended for Singapore, etc. To Philip, Hamo and Yosh: I understand that there is a controversy about it even in the U.S., and so, someday, I would like to know the basic outlines of it, and what rules Word editiing software is following. Maybe I will just ask them. Thank you all, again.
Shinya
(Honorifics omitted)"
3 mins
"I hate grammar."
I don't know why Word disagrees, but the period should always come before the quotation marks.
Examples:
Mr. On said, "I hate grammar."
"I hate grammar," sighed Mr. Ono.
Examples:
Mr. On said, "I hate grammar."
"I hate grammar," sighed Mr. Ono.
Reference:
9 mins
Pro-Japanese
Canada
Canada
Native in English
Canada
Professional, Accurate, and Satisfaction
Native in: English
Works in: Japanese to English, English to Japanese
Always inside.
According to the Chicago Style Manual, commas and periods are always placed inside of the quotation marks.
Here are the excerpts:
173. The period is placed inside the quotation marks. Put it inside the
parentheses or brackets when the matter inclosed is an independent sentence
forming no part of the preceding sentence; otherwise, outside (see 166):
Tennyson's "In Memoriam."
Put the period inside the quotation marks. (This is a rule without exception.)
When the parentheses form a part of the preceding sentence, put the period
outside (as, for instance, here).
213. The comma is always placed inside the quotation marks, but it follows the
parenthesis if the context requires it at all (see 166):
See the sections on "Quotations," which may be found elsewhere in this volume.
Here he gives a belated, though stilted (and somewhat obscure), exposition of
the subject.
Here are the excerpts:
173. The period is placed inside the quotation marks. Put it inside the
parentheses or brackets when the matter inclosed is an independent sentence
forming no part of the preceding sentence; otherwise, outside (see 166):
Tennyson's "In Memoriam."
Put the period inside the quotation marks. (This is a rule without exception.)
When the parentheses form a part of the preceding sentence, put the period
outside (as, for instance, here).
213. The comma is always placed inside the quotation marks, but it follows the
parenthesis if the context requires it at all (see 166):
See the sections on "Quotations," which may be found elsewhere in this volume.
Here he gives a belated, though stilted (and somewhat obscure), exposition of
the subject.
1 hr
Roddy Stegemann
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Search HKLNA!
Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, Japanese to English, French to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
There are rules, but there is no court of law.
1)"I hate grammar", said Mr. Ohno.
2) Mr. Ohno said "I hate grammar".
3) In a passage written by Mr. Ohno the following phrase was found: "I hate grammar".
Explanation: In all of the above three sentences Mr. Ohno's statement is an element of a larger sentence, whose punctuation takes precedence over that of Mr. Ohno's statement.
This is the rule that I use, and there are very few cases, where it cannot be applied with the utmost rigour.
It goes against all the rules I ever learned in school, but after five languages it is the only one that makes sense to me.
You are welcome to use it, but just do not argue with editors when they say change it, because editors are like self-appointed judges in an unofficial court of law; they are above prosecution over cases which they themselves are adjudicating.
Then too, in the Anglophonic world there is always the jury, and this is what ProZ is all about. As a result, I haven't a chance of winning this case, because most everyone has probably been brought up under the same system of jurisprudence.
Very truly yours,
Hamo
2) Mr. Ohno said "I hate grammar".
3) In a passage written by Mr. Ohno the following phrase was found: "I hate grammar".
Explanation: In all of the above three sentences Mr. Ohno's statement is an element of a larger sentence, whose punctuation takes precedence over that of Mr. Ohno's statement.
This is the rule that I use, and there are very few cases, where it cannot be applied with the utmost rigour.
It goes against all the rules I ever learned in school, but after five languages it is the only one that makes sense to me.
You are welcome to use it, but just do not argue with editors when they say change it, because editors are like self-appointed judges in an unofficial court of law; they are above prosecution over cases which they themselves are adjudicating.
Then too, in the Anglophonic world there is always the jury, and this is what ProZ is all about. As a result, I haven't a chance of winning this case, because most everyone has probably been brought up under the same system of jurisprudence.
Very truly yours,
Hamo
Discussion
I appreciate John's straightforward answer, Yosh's comprehensive explanation, John's balance, and Hamo's independence. Thank you all, with all my admiration. Although I am going with the conventional American rule, unless asked to follow the British style, I am a bit "sceptical" of American universalism. Also, many people outside of U.K. may use their rule. So, I am going to choose John's answer.