| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Native speakers and language direction Thread poster: Gerard Barry
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Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 10:09
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Tom in London wrote: Gerard Barry wrote: .... It still kind of annoys me though that I probably wouldn't be hired for an English to German translation job (if I wanted it). Many Germans probably think their English is perfect, but to a native English speaker it always becomes obvious very quickly when a person is non-native. This applies both to spoken English and written English. It also applies to all other languages. [Edited at 2022-05-05 08:22 GMT]
To be fair to my German ex-colleagues, they for the most part did a really good job of translating into English. Their translations usually read very well and you wouldn't notice they were translated by a non-native speaker of English. However, it still bothers me that us native English speakers aren't at least given the opportunity to translate into our second language. Maybe we'd do a good job too if given the chance. There's a double standard at play.
| | | | Baran Keki 
Türkiye
Local time: 11:09
Member
English to Turkish
| How do you know? | May 6, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote:
However, it still bothers me that us native English speakers aren't at least given the opportunity to translate into our second language. Maybe we'd do a good job too if given the chance. There's a double standard at play.
What makes you think you're denied the opportunity to translate into your second language? I've seen a good number of Proz user profiles who, being native English speakers, translate into various languages from English. What stops you from applying to an English to German job ad here or asking the agencies to give you EN>GER translation jobs? Will they say 'it's a sin to translate from one's native language'?
I see that you've agreed to a person's post who thinks it's 'unethical' to translate into one's second language and yet you're complaining about double standards.
I'd think you'd earn more translating from German to English than the other way around.
| | | | | Here's your chance: | May 6, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote:
However, it still bothers me that us native English speakers aren't at least given the opportunity to translate into our second language. Maybe we'd do a good job too if given the chance. There's a double standard at play.
Please go ahead and translate your post in one of your next posts into German, without the aid of DeepL, or start discussions in the German branch of the forums in German. No one will forbid you to do so, neither Merkel nor Scholz or Karl Lauterbach. Begin with an essay in German, why so many Germans again start to forage toilet paper and vegetable oil. By the way: The same Germans who don't believe in the existence of a COVID 19 virus. Use verbs. And tell the truth.
[Bearbeitet am 2022-05-06 21:17 GMT]
| | | | Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 10:09
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Tom in London wrote: Gerard Barry wrote: .... It still kind of annoys me though that I probably wouldn't be hired for an English to German translation job (if I wanted it). Many Germans probably think their English is perfect, but to a native English speaker it always becomes obvious very quickly when a person is non-native. This applies both to spoken English and written English. It also applies to all other languages. [Edited at 2022-05-05 08:22 GMT]
That's true. Look at Matthias Brombach's posts! His English posts could not sound more German.
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| Your posts ... | May 8, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote: Tom in London wrote: Gerard Barry wrote: .... It still kind of annoys me though that I probably wouldn't be hired for an English to German translation job (if I wanted it). Many Germans probably think their English is perfect, but to a native English speaker it always becomes obvious very quickly when a person is non-native. This applies both to spoken English and written English. It also applies to all other languages. [Edited at 2022-05-05 08:22 GMT] That's true. Look at Matthias Brombach's posts! His English posts could not sound more German.
... only reflect your IL which won't improve when you post them in German.
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 10:09
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Glass houses and stones | May 8, 2022 |
Gerard, I'm looking forward to basking in the unfettered splendor of your own personal brand of German, which now I expect to be no less than Goethean. Or else ...
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 09:09
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Language branches | May 8, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote:
That's true. Look at Matthias Brombach's posts! His English posts could not sound more German.
Matthias shares, at least, the same linguistic branch as you: North Germanic language branch, i.e. English, German, and Dutch.
If you are already a native of a Germanic language, knowing another in the same linguistic group should be a much easier process and with less errors (speaking and writing) than knowing one from a different branch.
If we were to compare a couple of common words found in, for example, Portuguese, French, Spanish and Italian, we would find that they are very similar or, in some cases, even identical.
Just to give you an example, the word "Mouth": Boca/ Bouche/ Boca / Bocca.
I translate from those languages except Italian, but I can understand it when it is written and when a native speaks a little bit slower. Once, I tried to learn a language of a different branch without being very successful and I'm sure that I wouldn't be able to translate from a Germanic language except English.
Also, I'm already very old to learn a new language, and I love the ones I already work with.
And my post above couldn't sound more Latin 
| | | | Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 10:09
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
Baran Keki wrote:
I can understand why Turks are translating into English as no American or British medical professional will ever take an interest in learning Turkish to become a Turkish to English medical translator (or in any other field of specialization), but for the life of me I can't understand why Germans allow non-natives to translate into English when there must be thousands upon thousands of native English speakers translating from German and specialized in every conceivable subject matter, and not to mention the fact that a good deal of them are already based in Germany.
I don't think availability has anything to do with this. The only explanation would be that Germans are 'easy to deal with' as far as rates are concerned, compared to Brits or Americans, and making good use of DeepL.
Rates have nothing to do with it as I was referring to my experiences in in-house translation departments. When I did work as a freelancer, the agencies I worked with only hired people to translate into their native tongue. So I was surprised when I moved to Germany and found that most of my colleagues in these in-house positions were German native speakers translating into English.
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 10:09
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Lack of competition | May 9, 2022 |
Gerard Barry wrote:
Hi all,
As a native English speaker, I'm always only "allowed" translate into my native tongue (from German). Yet in several in-house jobs I've had, many (or in some cases most) of my colleagues were native German speakers translating into English, i.e. into their second language. Why is it that I can't translate into German but the Germans can translate into English? Don't get me wrong: I don't want to translate into German as I would find it too difficult and my German ex-colleagues did a good job translating into English but I still wonder why there is a double standard here. Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences in this regard?
I know why Dutch translators translate into English. Not me, Tom, I stick to my mother tongue. Search on this website for Dutch to English translators:
https://www.proz.com/translator-directory/?sp=directory&to=eng&from=dut&pair_emphasis=1&sdl_trados_cert_level=na&sdlx_cert_level=na&field=&latitude=&longitude=&distance=50&keyword_cv_checkbox=on&orderby=&mode=view&from=dut&to=eng&pair_emphasis=1&native=eng&field=&type=translation&skill_interpreting=Any&skill_subtitling=Any&distance=50&location=&latitude=&longitude=&country=gb&cred=na&software=na&sdl_trados_cert_level=na&sdlx_cert_level=na&avail=na&keyword=&keyword_cv_checkbox=on&wwa=na&profile_last_updated=any&posted_wiwo_within_days=&orderby=
19 members for a general search is disappointing, isn't it.
With so much work to do - and nobody to do it - people choose suboptimal solutions.
To make things worse, when you have a Dutch text and need a translation into multiple languages, the "English" translation will be the source text for Lithuania, Portugal, and the rest of the world. See the Dutch into English problem – we’re neighbours - to understand the Dutch into anything else problem.
Cheers,
Gerard
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 11:09
Member
English to Turkish
Gerard de Noord wrote:
19 members for a general search is disappointing, isn't it.
With so much work to do - and nobody to do it - people choose suboptimal solutions.
The search shows that there are 167 non-members who are mostly native English speakers. I'm sure there must be 3 or 5 times as many outside Proz. Not every single translator is registered to Proz. I worked as an in-house for 10 years and had never once visited this website during that time. In any case, I'm willing to bet on my life that there are at least 3 times more native English speakers translating from Dutch than there are translating from Turkish.
Gerard de Noord wrote:
To make things worse, when you have a Dutch text and need a translation into multiple languages, the "English" translation will be the source text for Lithuania, Portugal, and the rest of the world.
"Dutch into English" problem, tell me about it! It's one of the weird ironies of life that the Dutch are regarded as the second best non-native English speakers in the world, and yet the majority of the English texts I receive from that country read something like this (this is from a recent translation project btw):
Did the teammember updated the personal career aspirations & mobility interests?
View and update the preferences on this page: Career Preferences
As a linemanager, you will first be directed to your own profile. Click on the 'View Team' button to go to the teammembers aspirations and Intrests.
Click finally on 'Save and Continue' to go to the next section.
Forget about the typos, wtf is a "mobility interest"? (I mean I can guess what it is, but why would you word it like this?)
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Baran Keki wrote:
"Dutch into English" problem, tell me about it! It's one of the weird ironies of life that the Dutch are regarded as the second best non-native English speakers in the world, and yet the majority of the English texts I receive from that country read something like this (this is from a recent translation project btw):
Did the teammember updated the personal career aspirations & mobility interests?
View and update the preferences on this page: Career Preferences
As a linemanager, you will first be directed to your own profile. Click on the 'View Team' button to go to the teammembers aspirations and Intrests.
Click finally on 'Save and Continue' to go to the next section.
Forget about the typos, wtf is a "mobility interest"? (I mean I can guess what it is, but why would you word it like this?)
... at least these translations made from Dutch or Swedish, Danish, etc. professionals into English are mostly usable for my purposes (xxx into German) because I can identify their meaning against the context, which I often cannot when the texts are written directly by a non-native person (I don't necessarily mean a "translator") into English, as I can see with many technical texts. Here a bit of professional training in terms of consistency, grammar, QA and using appropriate tools would help. If the texts by the mentioned non-native professionals (especially marketing texts) are fit enough for the English spoken markets is a different story.
[Bearbeitet am 2022-05-10 08:12 GMT]
| | | | | Don't walk under any ladders today, Baran! | May 10, 2022 |
Baran Keki wrote:
In any case, I'm willing to bet on my life that there are at least 3 times more native English speakers translating from Dutch than there are translating from Turkish.
Risky. I'd bet a tenner the other way! There are a lot of second-generation Turkish here in the UK. Dutch is a very niche language.
Forget about the typos, wtf is a "mobility interest"? (I mean I can guess what it is, but why would you word it like this?)
Actually, "mobility interests" is a thing... My other half works in a corporate environment and the stuff most people say and write there is unbelievable. You couldn't make most of it up. So I'd say that bit of Dutchlish is better than most Britlish out there...
Back on topic:
Pragmatism may speak in favour of translating the wrong way, but professional pride does not, IMHO. I love being able to play with words and savour the minute differences between five ways of saying the same thing. I would hate to be struggling to think of a single way of saying something.
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