| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Poll: Do you have to be a believer in order to translate a religious text? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Liena Vijupe 
Latvia
Local time: 03:13
Member (2014)
French to Latvian
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| Cross + Islam | May 27, 2021 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
As Baran's "Cross + Islam" comment on the Anthony Hopkins film shows, some translators just can't bring themselves to put on that hat.
[Edited at 2021-05-27 09:04 GMT]
I suspect there might be a much simpler explanation in this case – the translator probably had no video reference and decided a small cultural adjustment was fine, although you never know... Baran's comment made me laugh though!
P.S. Keep us posted, Philip! I join the others in the appreciation of some old-fashioned styles, but you've also got to keep up with the times, I guess.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 02:13
Spanish to English
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Baran made me laugh too, although the lack of any video had occurred to me, but still, without any video, Anthony Hopkins rasping "in the name of Allah" ...?
His nasty "I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti" to Agent Starling can be conveyed and dubbed into most languages with no culture shocks, but this is a little different.
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 02:13
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
Baran made me laugh too, although the lack of any video had occurred to me, but still, without any video, Anthony Hopkins rasping "in the name of Allah" ...?
His nasty "I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti" to Agent Starling can be conveyed and dubbed into most languages with no culture shocks, but this is a little different.
Most probably, the same translator would have swapped the Chianti with a mint tea, or an orange squash.
@Baran: you're a riot!
[Edited at 2021-05-27 11:23 GMT]
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 02:13
Italian to English
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| "I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti" | May 27, 2021 |
Don't ask me why I know this, but in the novel the line was "I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Amarone", but I guess the filmmakers thought that would fly past too many film-goers.
Then a few years later Thomas Harris's book Hannibal appeared and for the London launch someone (his publishers? the book-store? some association of crime writers?) had the bright idea to serve glasses of Amaretto to the public - enough to turn anybody off cannibalism for life.
... See more Don't ask me why I know this, but in the novel the line was "I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Amarone", but I guess the filmmakers thought that would fly past too many film-goers.
Then a few years later Thomas Harris's book Hannibal appeared and for the London launch someone (his publishers? the book-store? some association of crime writers?) had the bright idea to serve glasses of Amaretto to the public - enough to turn anybody off cannibalism for life.
BTW an early book by Thomas Harris was Black Sunday about attacking the Super Bowl stadium crowd with a blimp. The film version of which was directed by John Frankenheimer and featured Bruce Dern as a gibbering maniacal Vietnam vet.
[Edited at 2021-05-27 13:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-05-27 13:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 01:13
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
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| Blame the director | May 27, 2021 |
Baran Keki wrote:
Many years ago I was watching Bram Stoker's Dracula on TV. The film was dubbed in Turkish and at one scene Anthony Hopkins' character (Van Helsing, I think) was pressing a cross into Dracula's face and saying "In the name Allah and the prophet get back!!!". I thought it odd at the time that Anthony Hopkins was a Muslim toting a cross... but I also remember thinking that he may have found the true faith along the way like his compatriot Cat Stevens, but as a force of habit resorted to his cross at that crucial moment when facing Dracula...
Years later I watched the same film on Netflix in original English language and found that he was actually saying "In the name of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost (or something like that) get back!!!".
I was utterly and completely disappointed...
To get back to the topic, I think the person who translated the subtitles or dubbed the film was a believer and his beliefs heavily influenced his work so much so that it totally ruined the film for me.
A tasbih instead of a cross would solve the problem.
Answering the poll: No, of course not. The only faith you need to have is to be faithful to that text or translate it with all faithfulness.
| | | | LIZ LI
China
Local time: 08:13
French to Chinese
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| Religion v.s. Profession | May 27, 2021 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
What is true, though, is that a translator should ask himself whether his own beliefs may interfere with the translation of a text that advances a different faith. I'm not talking about translators who are mere adherents to faiths that they grew up with, but who are firm believers of their religion. A translator for whom e.g. Christianity and the beliefs of Christianity are absolute truths and non-negotiable moral values may have trouble translating a text that promotes e.g. Satanism in a way that is fair to the client. The principle here is part of normal translator ethics: don't translate something that you are unable to translate well, especially if your inability is due to a clash between your own beliefs and that of the text.
That's also my point.
It may not be relevent to one's ability in translation BUT his / her own faith against the content provided.
Qualified professionals are technically capable to deal with all (or certain) sorts of materials.
"Qualified" believers may NOT.
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If the text is too "over the top," I might not be interested in spending my time turning it into a masterpiece.
| | | | | Values and beliefs | May 28, 2021 |
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
@Philip: I hear you but, even though I don't share the belief in an afterlife, I do share most of the Christian values. Those texts were aimed at advocacy, yet they didn't read like a sort of crusade. They showed how the Gospels can give you an answer to the challenges of life.
I would happily promote Christian moral teachings, as I consider them quite admirable. (Just to be clear, I mean the moral teachings of Jesus, not that nasty Old Testament stuff.)
However, I don't think I'd be the best person to translate a text about the importance of believing in miracles, or the power of prayer.
I was actually in a similar situation a few years ago, when a regular client asked me if I could take on a job that involved not exactly a religious text, but one that had an approach of the type, "how the Gospels can give you an answer to the challenges of life." The task was to modernise the existing English text, to make it more contemporary and idiomatic, and thus more appealing to the 21st century reader.
I declined the job for two reasons: one was my reluctance to promote beliefs I do not share, as we've been discussing, along with concerns about how well I could do it anyway (the text was of a type that would have been easy to send up, even unconsciously).
The other reason was that when I read a sample of the kind of style they wanted in terms of revision, I found I strongly preferred the old-fashioned original.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:13
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I am not a Christian myself, but I have often translated religious texts of a philosophical nature written by thoughtful members of the clergy who are high up the Catholic Church, liberal-minded people who work within international bodies like UNESCO. Some of their pieces are very scholarly and interesting to translate. But I wouldn't be interested in translating fundamentalist stuff.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 02:13
Spanish to English
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| Break on through to the other side | May 28, 2021 |
Sounds to me you've done just that, Tom. Thoughtful Catholic bigwigs? That's practically fighting talk, only 45 days before the Glorious Twelfth. Now come on. You want to be able to hold your head high next time you land at Aldergrove or step off the boat in Larne, don't you?
(it's only a joke, Tom ... no need for any strongish language)
[Edited at 2021-05-28 12:19 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:13
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
Sounds to me you've done just that, Tom. Thoughtful Catholic bigwigs? That's practically fighting talk, only 45 days before the Glorious Twelfth. Now come on. You want to be able to hold your head high next time you land at Aldergrove or step off the boat in Larne, don't you?
(it's only a joke, Tom ... no need for any strongish language)
[Edited at 2021-05-28 12:19 GMT]
YOur brain seems to be confined with the Northern Irish border. See a psychiatrist.
[Edited at 2021-05-28 13:47 GMT]
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 02:13
Spanish to English
+ ...
When corresponding with you helps me much more ...
And I haven't got a great track record. My last psychiatrist hanged himself.
[Edited at 2021-05-28 13:55 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-05-28 13:56 GMT]
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 02:13
Spanish to English
+ ...
And have a care, too. As you know, we were both belatedly moderator-zapped this very morning for my unacceptable jibes and your unacceptable language quite some time ago, so let's keep it clean, shall we? Think of the children. ANd please stop capitalising the first two letters all the time. IT's most distracting. NOt to say annoying. JUst the first one will do.
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 01:13
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
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| I believe... | May 28, 2021 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
When corresponding with you helps me much more ...
You really are a great person and an excellent colleague and above all someone who is very polite, something not many people are.
| | | | | I believe ... | May 29, 2021 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
ANd please stop capitalising the first two letters all the time. IT's most distracting. NOt to say annoying. JUst the first one will do.
... that you, Mervyn, have to note all the capitalised letters in the order they are published and see, what hidden message they will build finally, like "fxxk xff, wxxxxr" or similar. That's what I believe.
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