| Puslapiai temoje: < [1 2] | UK VAT after Brexit Gijos autorius: Will Kelly
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Dan Lucas 
Jungtinė Karalystė
Local time: 04:50
Narys (2014)
iš japonų į anglų
| Horses for courses | Jan 16, 2020 |
Tom in London wrote:
So my VAT-rated expenses are absolutely minimal.
In that case I would agree that it would make little sense to be VAT-registered.
Regards,
Dan
| | | | RobinB
Jungtinės Amerikos Valstijos
Local time: 22:50
iš vokiečių į anglų
| UK will be a third country | Jan 16, 2020 |
Even if there is a "deal light", the UK will effectively be classified as a third country from 1 February 2020. And that means no VAT on invoices for translations to customers in the EU (in exactly the same way as for myself, now located in the United States). Translation services are not "digital services" under the EU VAT regime, so there's no "place of supply" rules that have to be applied. As a result, there will be effectively no change compared with the current situation -- except that B2C... See more Even if there is a "deal light", the UK will effectively be classified as a third country from 1 February 2020. And that means no VAT on invoices for translations to customers in the EU (in exactly the same way as for myself, now located in the United States). Translation services are not "digital services" under the EU VAT regime, so there's no "place of supply" rules that have to be applied. As a result, there will be effectively no change compared with the current situation -- except that B2C translations provided by UK-based translators to EU-based private clients (very much the exception, of course) or to EU institutions will no longer be subject to VAT. And there should no longer be any requirement for UK-based translators to give their UK VAT no. on their invoices to customers in the EU.
Robin ▲ Collapse
| | | | CAK
Vokietija
Local time: 05:50
iš anglų į vokiečių
+ ...
| Andrew Hodges (X)
Jungtinė Karalystė
Local time: 04:50
iš kroatų į anglų
+ ...
| B2C VAT with EU customers after Brexit | Jan 13, 2021 |
Can anyone advise or supply a link on how
VAT is (not) calculated for B2C customers in EU countries
now?
(Translation and copyediting services, UK VAT-registered sole trader).
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Will Kelly
Jungtinė Karalystė
iš olandų į anglų
TEMOS KŪRĖJA(S) | Place of supply | Jan 13, 2021 |
Robin's analysis is pretty accurate, with one exception: place of supply rules are still relevant. The location of the service provider, the location of the customer and the nature of the service determine the place of supply and the place of supply determines VAT liability. That basic principle hasn't changed post Brexit. The following explains that the place of supply for translation services B2C will be the customer's location. Translation is specifically mentioned under 12.6.
... See more Robin's analysis is pretty accurate, with one exception: place of supply rules are still relevant. The location of the service provider, the location of the customer and the nature of the service determine the place of supply and the place of supply determines VAT liability. That basic principle hasn't changed post Brexit. The following explains that the place of supply for translation services B2C will be the customer's location. Translation is specifically mentioned under 12.6.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-place-of-supply-of-services-notice-741a#sec12 ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
Jungtinė Karalystė
Local time: 04:50
Narys (2014)
iš japonų į anglų
| NB not just for consumers | Jan 14, 2021 |
Will Kelly wrote:
The following explains that the place of supply for translation services B2C will be the customer's location. Translation is specifically mentioned under 12.6.
Just to underline that although you mention business-to-consumer (B2C) transactions, which is the topic of section 12 ("12. B2C services of a professional, technical, financial, intellectual or other intangible nature supplied to customers outside the UK"), this is also relevant to business-to-business (B2B) transactions, as section 3.1 makes clear-ish.
3. Place of belonging
3.1 Introduction
The place where a supplier or customer belongs will determine where the service is supplied and who accounts for any VAT due in the following cases:
B2B general rule services: supplied where the customer belongs (see paragraph 6.3)
B2C general rule services: supplied where the supplier belongs (see paragraph 6.2)
specific B2C services are also supplied where the customer belongs (see section 12)
I for one have never dealt with a private individual, so the distinction is important in principle although in this case the treatment is the same!
Dan
| | | | Andrew Hodges (X)
Jungtinė Karalystė
Local time: 04:50
iš kroatų į anglų
+ ...
Great, so this is actually an important change compared with before the end of the transition.
To recap, for translation:
For B2B (worldwide except UK), no VAT is added to invoice. The business applies the reverse charge. Place of supply is where the customer belongs. No more EC sales list for business with the EU.
For B2C (worldwide except UK), no VAT is added to invoice (out of scope of UK VAT). The place of supply is defined as where the customer belongs... See more Great, so this is actually an important change compared with before the end of the transition.
To recap, for translation:
For B2B (worldwide except UK), no VAT is added to invoice. The business applies the reverse charge. Place of supply is where the customer belongs. No more EC sales list for business with the EU.
For B2C (worldwide except UK), no VAT is added to invoice (out of scope of UK VAT). The place of supply is defined as where the customer belongs.
This is how it has always been for non-EU transactions, whereas VAT was charged for B2C intra-EU transactions up to Dec 2020.
I realise B2C doesn't affect many translation businesses but I also do quite a lot of editing work
for academic writers in Germany, sometimes contracting with them directly, so this will be affected.
Thanks!
[Edited at 2021-01-14 09:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Will Kelly
Jungtinė Karalystė
iš olandų į anglų
TEMOS KŪRĖJA(S) | A few clarificatory points... | Jan 14, 2021 |
It's correct that 'no VAT is added to the invoice' where the reverse charge mechanism is to be used. However, there are two points to bear in mind in this regard:
1) The invoice should state explicitly that the reverse charge mechanism applies.
2) The value of projects handled under the reverse charge mechanism needs to be included on one's VAT return.
Aside from the above, it's important to add that it's not as simple as 'beyond scope of UK VAT' might suggest. On... See more It's correct that 'no VAT is added to the invoice' where the reverse charge mechanism is to be used. However, there are two points to bear in mind in this regard:
1) The invoice should state explicitly that the reverse charge mechanism applies.
2) The value of projects handled under the reverse charge mechanism needs to be included on one's VAT return.
Aside from the above, it's important to add that it's not as simple as 'beyond scope of UK VAT' might suggest. Once the place of supply is deemed to be the customer's location, the rules applicable in the customer's jurisdiction apply, and these vary considerably, despite the ostensible homogeneity of the EU. This takes things to a level of complexity that's beyond the scope of this thread, but the bottom line is not to make assumptions, especially in terms of universal applicability. What applies in one country might not apply in another. The only way to be certain is to contact the chamber of commerce (or equivalent) in your customers' country/countries and seek appropriate advice. UK embassy trade advisors are another source of help. ▲ Collapse
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Julia Burgess
Jungtinė Karalystė
Local time: 04:50
iš vokiečių į anglų
| Returning to the B2C VAT question | Jul 5, 2023 |
Andrew Hodges wrote:
Great, so this is actually an important change compared with before the end of the transition.
To recap, for translation:
For B2B (worldwide except UK), no VAT is added to invoice. The business applies the reverse charge. Place of supply is where the customer belongs. No more EC sales list for business with the EU.
For B2C (worldwide except UK), no VAT is added to invoice (out of scope of UK VAT). The place of supply is defined as where the customer belongs.
This is how it has always been for non-EU transactions, whereas VAT was charged for B2C intra-EU transactions up to Dec 2020.
I realise B2C doesn't affect many translation businesses but I also do quite a lot of editing work
for academic writers in Germany, sometimes contracting with them directly, so this will be affected.
Thanks!
[Edited at 2021-01-14 09:15 GMT]
Reviving this discussion as I've been considering taking on DE-EN translation work from non-business customers, so B2C, and I'm confused again! Is it as simple as me not adding VAT to the invoice (as Andrew summarised back in Jan 2021) and neither party having to deal with any VAT faff?
I'm UK-based and not VAT registered. As I understand it, human translation isn't classed as a digital service, but it is a supply "of a professional nature", so "services are supplied where your customer belongs and so are outside the scope of UK VAT" (per UK Gov guidance https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-place-of-supply-of-services-notice-741a#sec12). Some of the info online is pre-Deal and pre-end-of-transition, which is adding to my confusion ...
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