What language is this website - Arabic, Uighur, Kazakh, or what? Thread poster: Thomas Johansson
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Hello,
Here is a Kazakhstani news site in a language with Arabic script: https://ar.inform.kz/
(The English version can be seen here: https://en.inform.kz/)
The "ar" in the link would suggest the language is Arabic, but when I pass some of the texts through Google Translate, it says Uighur. Howe... See more Hello,
Here is a Kazakhstani news site in a language with Arabic script: https://ar.inform.kz/
(The English version can be seen here: https://en.inform.kz/)
The "ar" in the link would suggest the language is Arabic, but when I pass some of the texts through Google Translate, it says Uighur. However, I don't trust Google Translate completely on these matters (it has made errors in the past). According to Wikipedia, Uighurs consitute around 1.5% of the population in Kazakhstan.
A third possibility is that it is Kazakh language written in Arabic script. According to Wikipedia, an Arabic-based alphabet is used by Kazakh minorities in China.
I wonder if someone can please confirm whether the language is Arabic, Uighur or Kazakh, or if it is some other language?
Thank you,
Thomas
[Edited at 2024-01-27 18:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Morano El-Kholy 
Egypt
Local time: 09:15
Member (2011)
English to Arabic
+ ...
| This is not an Arabic Language | Jan 27 |
Hi Thomas,
I can confirm that this mentioned text is not in the Arabic Language. I don't know anything about the Kazakhstani Language.
| | | | | From the horse's mouth | Jan 27 |
Quote from the "About Kazinform" page in the English version: https://en.inform.kz/about/
"Kazinform covers news in Kazakh, Russian, English, Chinese and Uzbek. It also uses the Latin-based Kazakh alphabet and the Arabic alphabet to provide news to our compatriots residing abroad."
The version that uses the Latin-based ... See more Quote from the "About Kazinform" page in the English version: https://en.inform.kz/about/
"Kazinform covers news in Kazakh, Russian, English, Chinese and Uzbek. It also uses the Latin-based Kazakh alphabet and the Arabic alphabet to provide news to our compatriots residing abroad."
The version that uses the Latin-based Kazakh alphabet is here: https://kaz.inform.kz
and the version with the Arabic alphabet is here: https://ar.inform.kz
HTH ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dalia Nour
Egypt
Local time: 09:15
Member (2018)
English to Arabic
+ ...
| This language is not Arabic! | Jan 27 |
I agree with Morano!
It's in a different language that I don't understand too! It looks like Urdu but I'm not sure!
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Perfect, thank you very much, all! So it is Kazakh written with Arabic script, wonderful.
[Edited at 2024-01-27 19:55 GMT]
| | | | | This is Uighur, simply by exclusion | Jan 27 |
No other languages mentioned use such characters. I'd take it for Arabic, but now that people are saying it isn't, it must be Uighur. Their characters (as appearing on the wiki page, for example) look like those on the site, plus Uighur affairs are relevant for Kazakhstan. Once I got an old Turkish-English dictionary wanting to look something up but wasn't able to do it because Turkish was written in similar characters. Uighur is a Turkic language
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post. | | looks like Arabic transliteration of Kazakh | Jan 28 |
I only have a very rudimentary grasp of Arabic script, but I get the impression the texts at https://ar.inform.kz/ look somewhat like Arabic transliterations of the texts at the Latin and Cyrillic versions of the site.
For comparison, here is the first paragraph from the article on the eagle huntress kid from the Arabic, Latin and Cyrillic versions:
«مەن قازاقستاندامىن، ... See more I only have a very rudimentary grasp of Arabic script, but I get the impression the texts at https://ar.inform.kz/ look somewhat like Arabic transliterations of the texts at the Latin and Cyrillic versions of the site.
For comparison, here is the first paragraph from the article on the eagle huntress kid from the Arabic, Latin and Cyrillic versions:
«مەن قازاقستاندامىن، ءبىر اپتاداي بۇرىن اتا- انام مەن باۋىرلارىم كوشىپ كەلدى. ءوزىم الماتىداعى س. دەميرەل اتىنداعى ۋنيۆەرسيتەتتە قازاق ءتىلى مەن ادەبيەتى ماماندىعى بويىنشا 4 كۋرستا وقىپ جاتىرمىن. ءقازىر ماماندىعىم بويىنشا جۇمىس قاراستىرىپ جاتىرمىن» ، - دەدى ايشولپان Kazinform تىلشىسىنە ۇيالى تەلەفون ارقىلى بەرگەن سۇحباتىندا.
(https://ar.inform.kz/news/brkytey-ayewlanny-wtbasy-qazaqstanca-kwey-kldy-465575/)
«Men Qazaqstandamyn, bir aptadaı buryn ata-anam men baýyrlarym kóship keldi. Ózim Almatydaǵy S.Demırel atyndaǵy ýnıversıtette qazaq tili men ádebıeti mamandyǵy boıynsha 4 kýrsta oqyp jatyrmyn. Qazir mamandyǵym boıynsha jumys qarastyryp jatyrmyn», - dedi Aısholpan Kazinform tilshisine uıaly telefon arqyly bergen suhbatynda.
(https://qz.inform.kz/news/burktsh-aysholpannin-otbasi-kazakstanga-koshp-keld-e11cb0/)
«Мен Қазақстандамын, бір аптадай бұрын ата-анам мен бауырларым көшіп келді. Өзім Алматыдағы С.Демирел атындағы университетте қазақ тілі мен әдебиеті мамандығы бойынша 4 курста оқып жатырмын. Қазір мамандығым бойынша жұмыс қарастырып жатырмын», - деді Айшолпан Kazinform тілшісіне ұялы телефон арқылы берген сұхбатында.
(https://kaz.inform.kz/news/burktsh-aysholpannin-otbasi-kazakstanga-koshp-keld-e11cb0/) ▲ Collapse
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Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 09:15
English to Russian
This is Uighur, simply by exclusion I suggested that too first. Because it translates clear into Russian when you select Uyghur as a source language (unlike when you select Kazakh or Arabic). However, I think a Kazakh company knows their content better than us. If they mark it as "ar", they present it as a language somehow related to Arabic. If other fellow translators say it is not Arabic itself, then most probably it is Kazakh in Arabic font.
| | | | | No, it's not Uighur | Jan 28 |
Denis Fesik wrote:
No other languages mentioned use such characters. I'd take it for Arabic, but now that people are saying it isn't, it must be Uighur. Their characters (as appearing on the wiki page, for example) look like those on the site, plus Uighur affairs are relevant for Kazakhstan. Once I got an old Turkish-English dictionary wanting to look something up but wasn't able to do it because Turkish was written in similar characters. Uighur is a Turkic language
As I pointed out earlier, Kazinform's own 'About' page has a list of the languages they use. Uighur is not in that list.
Also, the agency doesn't use the ISO2 language code for Uighur (ug) in the URL, following the logic adopted in the URLs of other 'non-national' language versions aimed at significant emigrant populations in China and Russia.
As explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_language , Kazakhstan has used several scripts/alphabets in the past 100 or so years:
"The Kazakhs used the Arabic script to write their language until approximately 1929. In the early 1900s, Kazakh activist Akhmet Baitursynuly reformed the Kazakh-Arabic alphabet, but his work was largely overshadowed by the Soviet presence in Central Asia. At that point, the new Soviet regime forced the Kazakhs to use a Latin script, and then a Cyrillic script in the 1940s. Today, Kazakhs use the Cyrillic and Latin scripts to write their language."
That last statement may be true of Kazakhs living in Kazakhstan but, as evidenced in other parts of the world, emigrant populations are often several generations 'behind the times' when it comes to updating their use of their 'mother tongue'. (I am reminded here, for example, of the first media interviews with residents of the Falkland Islands / Islas Malvinas in 1982, in which they used English in a manner akin to that of the works of Jane Austen.)
Given a straight choice between what you think it 'must be', and what this state-owned news agency themselves say it is - and their declared motive for providing news in Kazakh written with Arabic script alongside Kazakh written with Latin-based script - I think it's fair to assume that this state-owned news agency knows what it's doing.
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The language is Kazakh written in Arabic script.
Besides what has already been stated in this thread, the language icon at the top of the site says قاز (Qaz), which is short for Qazaq (Kazakh).
According to the same Wikipedia page shared by Jennifer:
Nowadays, Kazakh is mostly written in the Cyrillic script, with an Arabic-based alphabet being used by minorities in China.
[Edited at 2024-01-29 00:00 GMT]
| | | | | An interesting thing to learn | Jan 29 |
It is reasonable to guess that people who lived in today's Kazakhstan had been using Arabic characters before adopting the Cyrillic alphabet under the Soviet rule (which probably did not happen instantly, because at first, the Bolsheviks strongly supported all kinds of national identities and promoted the use of local languages, partly with a view to fostering revolutionary divisions), but when their writing system was converted to Cyrillic, I suppose it happened countrywide. So I wonder if ther... See more It is reasonable to guess that people who lived in today's Kazakhstan had been using Arabic characters before adopting the Cyrillic alphabet under the Soviet rule (which probably did not happen instantly, because at first, the Bolsheviks strongly supported all kinds of national identities and promoted the use of local languages, partly with a view to fostering revolutionary divisions), but when their writing system was converted to Cyrillic, I suppose it happened countrywide. So I wonder if there still are groups of people (in the east of the country?) who natively use Arabic characters. Latinization of Kazakh is a relatively recent trend according to some news. Also, Kazakh and Arabic sound very different, so they must have a set of conventions on how the sounds of Arabic should be changed. I've never seen anyone from Kazakhstan on these forums ▲ Collapse
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| on Arabic and Cyrillic orthographies | Jan 29 |
Denis Fesik wrote:
It is reasonable to guess that people who lived in today's Kazakhstan had been using Arabic characters before adopting the Cyrillic alphabet under the Soviet rule (which probably did not happen instantly, because at first, the Bolsheviks strongly supported all kinds of national identities and promoted the use of local languages, partly with a view to fostering revolutionary divisions), but when their writing system was converted to Cyrillic, I suppose it happened countrywide. So I wonder if there still are groups of people (in the east of the country?) who natively use Arabic characters. Latinization of Kazakh is a relatively recent trend according to some news. Also, Kazakh and Arabic sound very different, so they must have a set of conventions on how the sounds of Arabic should be changed. I've never seen anyone from Kazakhstan on these forums
I found the following on the Arabic orthography:
"The Arabic script is the official alphabet for Kazakhs in the Ili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China. It was first introduced to the territory of Kazakhstan in the eleventh century and was traditionally used to write Kazakh until the introduction of a Latin alphabet in 1929. In 1924, Kazakh intellectual Akhmet Baitursynov attempted to reform the Arabic script to better suit Kazakh."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets
"Baitursynuly reformed the Kazakh alphabet. In 1912, he excluded all the purely Arabic letters not used in the Kazakh language and added letters specific to the Kazakh language. The new alphabet, named Tote jazu (meaning straight writing), is still used by Kazakhs living in China, Afghanistan, and in Iran. Baitursynov also developed the basics of Kazakh and the scientific terminology for the definition of Kazakh grammar."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmet_Baitursynuly
Regarding the introduction of the Cyrillic script:
"In the nineteenth century, Ibrahim Altynsarin, a prominent Kazakh educator, first introduced a Cyrillic alphabet for transcribing Kazakh. Russian missionary activity, as well as Russian-sponsored schools, further encouraged the use of Cyrillic in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. The alphabet was reworked by Sarsen Amanzholov and accepted in its current form in 1940."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_alphabets
"On November 10, 1940, at the 5th session of the Supreme Soviet of the Kazakh SSR, Amanzholov was presented with the project of creating a new Cyrillic alphabet for the Kazakh language. This alphabet would replace the Uniform Turkic Alphabet which was currently being used throughout the USSR."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarsen_Amanzholov
In 1940, Cyrillic writing had already been in use by Russian missionaries since the 19th century, so they probably already had plenty of conventions developed regarding the matter of that time, and then presumably standardized by Sarsen Amanzholov in 1940. The introduction wasn't sudden.
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