| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Low rate Thread poster: DAVOOD RASTGUO
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Hello folks, client has reached me out objecting to my rate being high and suggesting with 0.03-word also $3/Min for subtitling.
What is an appropriate a reply. Should I even consider working for them?
Appreciate all responses
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 16:13
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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DAVOUD RASTGOU wrote:
Hello folks, client has reached me out objecting to my rate being high and suggesting with 0.03-word also $3/Min for subtitling.
These rates are very low for both the UK and for Sweden. Plus, it's 90% less than your usual rate (posted on your ProZ.com profile page). I don't think this client is a good fit for you. A polite reply would suffice.
| | | | | Too low for the task | Mar 22, 2023 |
$3 is low for subtitling. This is the rate that I accept for translating subtitles from English to French, for example.
Subtitling is more demanding than translate subtitles, since we consider that subtitling is the whole process. But you can negotiate and give the rate you think is better.
Notice that it also depends on the content of the video you will be working on.
| | | | | Ridiculous rates | Mar 22, 2023 |
When somebody offers me such rates, I usually reply outraged and make a big fuss. I sermon that the companies should take care of their resources (the translators), and that as freelancers, we have no work security, no insurance, no nothing, and we need to eat, live and pay the rent.
Ok, depending of my mood, sometimes I'm more persuasive, sometimes I'm just screaming my email out to them. But surprisingly, some of the times I slammed the door of Internet on them, they opened it ba... See more When somebody offers me such rates, I usually reply outraged and make a big fuss. I sermon that the companies should take care of their resources (the translators), and that as freelancers, we have no work security, no insurance, no nothing, and we need to eat, live and pay the rent.
Ok, depending of my mood, sometimes I'm more persuasive, sometimes I'm just screaming my email out to them. But surprisingly, some of the times I slammed the door of Internet on them, they opened it back and offered me what I wanted. That was good, but it wasn't the goal. Most of the time, I just feel like I've planted a good seed in this poor industry.
Any way, I NEVER work for such rates.
Évariste Willy Noah wrote:
$3 is low for subtitling. This is the rate that I accept for translating subtitles from English to French, for example.
Évariste, I don't know where you live. Maybe your rent is not as high as mine, maybe you can live well with those rates, but they are nonetheless unacceptable. To translate subtitles from English to French, my rates and usual rates are 5 € or 5 US$. For complete subtitling (time-coding + translating), I get 8 € right now, and I think it is low. I think 9 € would be more appropriate. Maybe somebody can confirm…?
Évariste, when you accept to work at those rates, not only you are being abused yourself, but you also break the market. You make it more difficult for other translators to get the money their job is worth for. You perpetrate the abuse on all of us by lowering the rates in the industry. You should never accept to work at low rates. Nobody should.
I can understand, when someone is brand new in the field, wants to learn, needs to get some work experience, feel unsecure and think their work doesn't worth that much. But nobody stays a beginner forever. After a few months, when you've gained some self-confidence, adapt your rates sheet and open up some new markets for yourself. You'll find some work that is better paid and will be able to leave those who are abusing. They'll be left with either paying better or searching for some new beginners.
Please, everybody, adapt your rates to the market, for your sake and the sake of the whole industry.
Marie-France Phaneuf
Translator/Subtitler EN>FR(-CA), DE>FR(-CA) ▲ Collapse
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texjax DDS PhD
Local time: 10:13
Member (2006)
English to Italian
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DAVOUD RASTGOU wrote:
Hello folks, client has reached me out objecting to my rate being high and suggesting with 0.03-word also $3/Min for subtitling.
Considering that, among other things:
Prices in Britain reversed a recent downward trend, rising 10.4 percent over the year through February.
Source: The New York Times tinyurl.com/2p83jyr8
UK inflation rate surprisingly jumps to 10.4 percent in February
Overall inflation for food and non-alcoholic drinks rose to 18.0 percent, its highest since 1977.
Source: Al Jazeera tinyurl.com/jp8fef43
What is an appropriate a reply?
No, thank you.
Should I even consider working for them?
No
| | | | | Yes, thank you for spelling that out for all of us | Mar 23, 2023 |
Marie-France Phaneuf wrote:
When somebody offers me such rates, I usually reply outraged and make a big fuss. I sermon that the companies should take care of their resources (the translators), and that as freelancers, we have no work security, no insurance, no nothing, and we need to eat, live and pay the rent.
Ok, depending of my mood, sometimes I'm more persuasive, sometimes I'm just screaming my email out to them. But surprisingly, some of the times I slammed the door of Internet on them, they opened it back and offered me what I wanted. That was good, but it wasn't the goal. Most of the time, I just feel like I've planted a good seed in this poor industry.
Any way, I NEVER work for such rates.
...[W]hen you accept to work at those rates, not only you are being abused yourself, but you also break the market. You make it more difficult for other translators to get the money their job is worth for. You perpetrate the abuse on all of us by lowering the rates in the industry. You should never accept to work at low rates. Nobody should.
[A]dapt your rates sheet and open up some new markets for yourself. You'll find some work that is better paid and will be able to leave those who are abusing. They'll be left with either paying better or searching for some new beginners.
Please, everybody, adapt your rates to the market, for your sake and the sake of the whole industry.
Marie-France Phaneuf
Translator/Subtitler EN>FR(-CA), DE>FR(-CA)
We all can learn from the French. They don't give up everything to the abusers. I too have been working very little lately, just accepted jobs that pay a respectful rate, and cared for my garden otherwise. Being chained to a computer for peanuts isn't worth living for.
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
| ♪ Low, don’t pay me low / No, never, never ♪ | Mar 23, 2023 |
Marie-France Phaneuf wrote:
When somebody offers me such rates, I usually reply outraged and make a big fuss. I sermon that the companies should take care of their resources (the translators), and that as freelancers, we have no work security, no insurance, no nothing, and we need to eat, live and pay the rent.
Ok, depending of my mood, sometimes I'm more persuasive, sometimes I'm just screaming my email out to them. But surprisingly, some of the times I slammed the door of Internet on them, they opened it back and offered me what I wanted. That was good, but it wasn't the goal. Most of the time, I just feel like I've planted a good seed in this poor industry.
I think there are more elegant ways to fight this battle. Ways that won’t deter potential customers from having a business relationship with us.
Évariste, when you accept to work at those rates, not only you are being abused yourself, but you also break the market. You make it more difficult for other translators to get the money their job is worth for. You perpetrate the abuse on all of us by lowering the rates in the industry. You should never accept to work at low rates. Nobody should.
[…]
Please, everybody, adapt your rates to the market, for your sake and the sake of the whole industry.
You know, I used to think the same. But after taking a deeper look upon this matter, I found the audiovisual translation market to be far more complicated than I originally perceived. To tell you the truth, I no longer believe a bunch of translators accepting peanuts would make an impact significant enough to cause a turbulence in the global pricing trend. Yes, I’m fully aware that the health of businesses and the economy have always been susceptible to a lot of factors, no matter how minuscule. But they can’t be THAT fragile.
I’d be more concerned about the automation made plausible by ASR or NMT. From my own assessment, the former have a strong potential to replace the roles of English spotters in a few years or so, if they haven’t already. The AVTors working with agencies are not going to experience any significant changes, I presume. We’ve been only translating templates for quite some time now. A different story might happen to those of us who work with direct clients. I guess, only time will tell.
As for the latter. Well, let’s put it this way: if AI are capable of understanding nuances and emotions contained within an audio track, then we all would have a bigger fish to fry than simply losing our jobs.
The future looks as grim as the weather of London, innit?
[Edited at 2023-03-23 10:33 GMT]
| | | | Nicholas Boline
United States
Local time: 09:13
Member (2023)
Spanish to English
| The rates are too d*** low! | Mar 23, 2023 |
Yeah, I think that is too low, and I agree with the folks saying that. I recently turned down an agency that contacted me trying to get me to do transcription, translation, and timecoding (ES>EN) of a 58 minute video of non-stop dialogue with a deadline of like 48 hours (rush job) and they flat out refused to go above $4/minute... I did some rough calculations, and that would have been about $0.025 per word for a rush job, assuming it was only translation, which of course, it isn't. I offered to... See more Yeah, I think that is too low, and I agree with the folks saying that. I recently turned down an agency that contacted me trying to get me to do transcription, translation, and timecoding (ES>EN) of a 58 minute video of non-stop dialogue with a deadline of like 48 hours (rush job) and they flat out refused to go above $4/minute... I did some rough calculations, and that would have been about $0.025 per word for a rush job, assuming it was only translation, which of course, it isn't. I offered to do the whole project for $450, which still didn't feel like enough, but they insisted they couldn't go any higher than $215.
When they said my rates are too high, I kindly linked them to ProZ's minimum rates page and said I hope you'll offer a fair price to your contractors in the future. Confusingly, or maybe because they are just more mature than me, they responded thanking me for my suggestion and said they'd look forward to working with me in the future. Who knows? They were courteous and professional, but I just can't justify working non-stop for 48 hours to do a large project for less than half of my minimum rate. I know some will say this is too high, but I generally work in the $8/$9 dollar range.
If you're desperate for money then maybe you do what you have to to survive, and so be it, but just keep in mind if you accept terms like that you are hurting yourself and other translators in the long run. ▲ Collapse
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Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
| @Nicholas Boline | Mar 23, 2023 |
Sounds like a tier 4 agency to me.
Although these days, I’d decline any rush jobs even if they doubled my standard rates. Uncle Satan is getting old. He needs to work only 8 hours a day and spend the rest trolling vegans on Reddit.
| | | | IrinaN
United States
Local time: 09:13
English to Russian
+ ...
| Maybe, just maybe | Mar 24, 2023 |
The "1st world" can get off a high horse once in a while? Do some live on Mars and disregard local conditions altogether? Wishful thinking at its finest.
Marie-France Phaneuf wrote:
1. we need to eat, live and pay the rent.
2. Évariste, I don't know where you live.
1. So does Évariste.
2. He lives in Cameroon but why even bother to look up his profile or avatar, right? A country where the cost of living is, on average, 50-65% lower than in US/Europe, which means that he already charges more than $5, comparatively. What exactly is he supposed to do? Go back to jungle (courtesy of Mr. B) and not dare to interfere with the 1st world standards? Guess what, many other higher standards are not observed over there as well for different reasons, which I am not about to mention here. Translate for locals into local dialects only? If he can live comfortably with those rates and feed his family, sorry, big shots, most likely he will (and should) proceed. How do we know what his options are, and how realistic is it for him to wait for someone to offer him Paris rates while keeping some clothes on his shoulders and food in the fridge in the meantime?
How about equal rights to eat, live and pay the rent? I hope he lives comfortably. Oh should he rather be abused by a total loss of available income or a forced change of trade altogether, regardless of his MA in the field, since because of him the 1st world suffers so much?
Do you feel like reversing globalization?
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 16:13
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Takes hat off | Mar 24, 2023 |
IrinaN wrote: The "1st world" can get off a high horse once in a while? Do some live on Mars and disregard local conditions altogether? Wishful thinking at its finest. Marie-France Phaneuf wrote:
1. we need to eat, live and pay the rent.
2. Évariste, I don't know where you live.
1. So does Évariste. 2. He lives in Cameroon but why even bother to look up his profile or avatar, right? A country where the cost of living is, on average, 50-65% lower than in US/Europe, which means that he already charges more than $5, comparatively. What exactly is he supposed to do? Go back to jungle (courtesy of Mr. B) and not dare to interfere with the 1st world standards? Guess what, many other higher standards are not observed over there as well for different reasons, which I am not about to mention here. Translate for locals into local dialects only? If he can live comfortably with those rates and feed his family, sorry, big shots, most likely he will (and should) proceed. How do we know what his options are, and how realistic is it for him to wait for someone to offer him Paris rates while keeping some clothes on his shoulders and food in the fridge in the meantime? How about equal rights to eat, live and pay the rent? I hope he lives comfortably. Oh should he rather be abused by a total loss of available income or a forced change of trade altogether, regardless of his MA in the field, since because of him the 1st world suffers so much? Do you feel like reversing globalization?
I applaud you.
| | | | Tony Bennjamin
Indonesia
Local time: 21:13
Member (2013)
Indonesian to English
+ ...
| Pre-subbed video | Mar 24, 2023 |
In general, I'll ask the client to provide me with pre-subbed video with srt file, and I just do the re-timing if the text is longer than English subtitle. This will save your time in creating a subtitle from scracth.
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DAVOOD RASTGUO
Local time: 15:13
English to Swedish
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TOPIC STARTER
I sympathise with you IRINA however how could I make re a client is really from a developing country or just saying this even using VPN to get a cheaper price?
15 yrs ago when I worked for NHS they used to send their recordings to India for transcription instead of hiring British transcribers. Do not know how is the practice nowadays
Those of you who are more experienced, is there any way to make sure a client really is from a developing country?
| | | | DAVOOD RASTGUO
Local time: 15:13
English to Swedish
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TOPIC STARTER | IS PROZ RATE CHART REALLY TO CARE ABOUT | Mar 24, 2023 |
Thank you every one for all your insightful replies, dedication and care. Please keep posting. Have not been able to thank earlier as I was caught up celebrating Norwouz.
From what most of you have written I get the impression that Proz rate chart is also abusive in terms of the rate it is suggesting and simply a joke and not be looked at as a decisive guidance when quoting the clients. Please keep posting replies.
| | | | IrinaN
United States
Local time: 09:13
English to Russian
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how could I make re a client is really from a developing country or just saying this even using VPN to get a cheaper price?
You don't have to. The rate that won't allow you to pay your rent in the UK should be enough to kiss that client goodbye regardless of where he comes from. If desired, we can always do some pro bono work to support a developing country through several reputable and globally recognized sources. But after you move to Cameroon and find a better flat than you live in now 64.5% cheaper than in the UK (an official number), you might reconsider:-). I'm sorry, I'm just kidding but you get the point.
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