Do agencies care about ISO 17100 compliance? Thread poster: Jenny Nilsson
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I've been in contact with a new agency (well, not new, just new for me) and I have done their test and all that. Then they told me "Since we are certified with ISO 17100:2015 standard, is it possible to get copies of diplomas/certificates etc". I said that, no, I don't have the relevant degree, and they say: "That's fine".
This agency has a score of 4.3 with a few concerning 1 and 2.
What do you reckon? Do agencies actually not care about holding the necessary document... See more I've been in contact with a new agency (well, not new, just new for me) and I have done their test and all that. Then they told me "Since we are certified with ISO 17100:2015 standard, is it possible to get copies of diplomas/certificates etc". I said that, no, I don't have the relevant degree, and they say: "That's fine".
This agency has a score of 4.3 with a few concerning 1 and 2.
What do you reckon? Do agencies actually not care about holding the necessary documentation to remain compliant, or is this particular agency a bit ... loose. ▲ Collapse
| | | | William Tierney 
United States
Local time: 07:02
Member (2002)
Arabic to English
Jenny Nilsson wrote:
I've been in contact with a new agency (well, not new, just new for me) and I have done their test and all that. Then they told me "Since we are certified with ISO 17100:2015 standard, is it possible to get copies of diplomas/certificates etc". I said that, no, I don't have the relevant degree, and they say: "That's fine".
This agency has a score of 4.3 with a few concerning 1 and 2.
What do you reckon? Do agencies actually not care about holding the necessary documentation to remain compliant, or is this particular agency a bit ... loose.
If an agency fills a folder with background data on their translators, they will get a star on their forehead from the ISO compliance agency. This doesn't mean they will use that particular translator for jobs. I have noticed a trend that the agencies that cite ISO requirements never come back to me for work, while the agencies that do work with me consistently never bother with ISO compliance. Whenever I get a request for ISO paperwork, I respond by saying we should build a professional relationship first, then we can consider paperwork. I also want to know the name and contact information for the ISO compliance organization. If an agency is unwilling to provide this information, it is a red flag that they just want your degree and/or certification and plan to go to "elcheapo" for the actual work.
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William Tierney wrote: Jenny Nilsson wrote:
I've been in contact with a new agency (well, not new, just new for me) and I have done their test and all that. Then they told me "Since we are certified with ISO 17100:2015 standard, is it possible to get copies of diplomas/certificates etc". I said that, no, I don't have the relevant degree, and they say: "That's fine".
This agency has a score of 4.3 with a few concerning 1 and 2.
What do you reckon? Do agencies actually not care about holding the necessary documentation to remain compliant, or is this particular agency a bit ... loose.
If an agency fills a folder with background data on their translators, they will get a star on their forehead from the ISO compliance agency. This doesn't mean they will use that particular translator for jobs. I have noticed a trend that the agencies that cite ISO requirements never come back to me for work, while the agencies that do work with me consistently never bother with ISO compliance. Whenever I get a request for ISO paperwork, I respond by saying we should build a professional relationship first, then we can consider paperwork. I also want to know the name and contact information for the ISO compliance organization. If an agency is unwilling to provide this information, it is a red flag that they just want your degree and/or certification and plan to go to "elcheapo" for the actual work.
Or else they then pass on the work to some other translator while making use of your certificates when applying for some tenders.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 13:02
French to English
When I had training on ISO compliance, the boss told us that all that was ever checked was whether the agency followed its own processes as specified when applying for the right to state that they adhere to ISO standards. She said that if you wrote that your process require you to put translator profiles in a blue folder, it better not be red. They might put in their process that they need X certificate or Y ID card or Z VAT number, and then whatever they put, they have to show that they collect... See more When I had training on ISO compliance, the boss told us that all that was ever checked was whether the agency followed its own processes as specified when applying for the right to state that they adhere to ISO standards. She said that if you wrote that your process require you to put translator profiles in a blue folder, it better not be red. They might put in their process that they need X certificate or Y ID card or Z VAT number, and then whatever they put, they have to show that they collected it.
Some agencies decide that they need to flesh out their processes to make it look more professional, because "contact the translator who usually does stuff for that client, failing them, look in the database and failing that, post the job on Proz" doesn't look very serious. This is why they then tell you they need X Y or Z because of ISO compliance, because their boss decided to put that in their official process.
And it's also why other ISO compliant firms don't all ask for the same XY and Z.
They do have to care about it if they want it to continue, because they'll get audited regularly. The auditor will also ask them to prove that all their staff have been trained. For me, it meant wasting a whole day to go to the head office in another city, to be told about blue and red folders and sign a yellow slip to the effect that I'd attended the training course, every other year I think. Since I was "just" a translator, there were zero requirements for me, only the PMs had to worry about blue and red folders. But I still had to be trained apparently. ▲ Collapse
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| We simply don't hear about their ISO certificate from the better run agencies | Aug 10, 2022 |
They require what they require from you, you comply or refuse, and everyone gets on. It's always the PMs who've put you through a drawn out onboarding process that's less than reasonable that have to remind you that oh, they aren't responsible for overkilling it, it's the ISO standard making them. And in a way they are right, as it's their boss testing your patience and not them personally, and their boss is using the ISO standard to justify his or her inability to devise a quick and efficient o... See more They require what they require from you, you comply or refuse, and everyone gets on. It's always the PMs who've put you through a drawn out onboarding process that's less than reasonable that have to remind you that oh, they aren't responsible for overkilling it, it's the ISO standard making them. And in a way they are right, as it's their boss testing your patience and not them personally, and their boss is using the ISO standard to justify his or her inability to devise a quick and efficient onboarding process.
If you are good at services you are offering, you shouldn't worry about not having a diploma. You will get plenty of work from the agencies who care about the quality of your work.
If you do not match with an agency, no big deal, there's plenty of other agency fish in the sea! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The whole ISO thing is a waste of time. | Aug 11, 2022 |
You can have great procedures, but still produce terrible translations. And, assuming the "score" you mention is on BlueBoard, their payment procedures aren't working as well as they could.
[Edited at 2022-08-11 12:07 GMT]
| | | | RobinB
United States
Local time: 06:02
German to English
| ISO 17100 FAQs | Aug 11, 2022 |
Hi Jenny,
You can find a useful collection of FAQs on ISO 17100 (well, I would say that, because I authored them) here:
https://wa1.fit-ift.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/ISO-17100-FAQs-for-Freelance-Translators_EN-FR.pdf
which should answer your question.
Following the older European ... See more Hi Jenny,
You can find a useful collection of FAQs on ISO 17100 (well, I would say that, because I authored them) here:
https://wa1.fit-ift.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/ISO-17100-FAQs-for-Freelance-Translators_EN-FR.pdf
which should answer your question.
Following the older European Standard EN 15038, ISO 17100 classifies translators into three groups, depending on academic qualifications and experience. If you don't have a translation or related degree, but you do have a degree in any other discipline, ISO 17100 requires translators to provide evidence of at least three years of full-time translation experience, when requested by an LSP.
That said, my own take is that most LSPs regard ISO 17100 certification as a marketing exercise, and many of them don't bother to actually apply the requirements of the standard, either internally or externally. However, the actual workload required of freelance translators is minimal, and you merely need to work out whether complying with the requests of (potential) clients is worth the candle.
Robin ▲ Collapse
| | | | RobinB
United States
Local time: 06:02
German to English
| ISO compliance organization? | Aug 11, 2022 |
It doesn' exist, I'm afraid, William, though I very much wish it would.
The nearest thing is the body that has issued the ISO 17100 certification for that particular LSP following an audit. Certified LSPs are supposed to provide contact information about the certifiying body on their website, but not all do so, as you note. You can complain to that certifying body about alleged non-compliance with ISO 17100 by the LSP, but there is absolutely no guarantee that anything will be done ... See more It doesn' exist, I'm afraid, William, though I very much wish it would.
The nearest thing is the body that has issued the ISO 17100 certification for that particular LSP following an audit. Certified LSPs are supposed to provide contact information about the certifiying body on their website, but not all do so, as you note. You can complain to that certifying body about alleged non-compliance with ISO 17100 by the LSP, but there is absolutely no guarantee that anything will be done about it. See also the FAQs I linked to in my reply to the original asker. ▲ Collapse
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 13:02
French to English
philgoddard wrote:
You can have great procedures, but still produce terrible translations. And, assuming the "score" you mention is on BlueBoard, their payment procedures aren't working as well as they could.
[Edited at 2022-08-11 12:07 GMT]
A good agency would have processes for thorough vetting of translators, making sure the right translator is selected for each job, and reviewing all work before delivering to the client.
And then the staff need to apply those processes intelligently, rather than just ticking boxes, for example by ignoring the fact that Translator Joe doesn't have a Master in translation because he started translating before degrees in translation were even a thing, and he has been translating jobs in that subject matter for over 20 years, earning a good living at it.
| | | | | ISO or not... | Aug 12, 2022 |
Kay Denney wrote:
A good agency would have processes for thorough vetting of translators, making sure the right translator is selected for each job, and reviewing all work before delivering to the client.
And then the staff need to apply those processes intelligently, rather than just ticking boxes, for example by ignoring the fact that Translator Joe doesn't have a Master in translation because he started translating before degrees in translation were even a thing, and he has been translating jobs in that subject matter for over 20 years, earning a good living at it.
... a good agency works only in a handful of languages/fields that they know well, and so knows all of their translators inside out and exactly who is best at what, and bases their prices on a markup of whatever the most suitable translator charges, rather than offering the translator a fixed markdown of whatever they quoted the customer.
I'm off to visit two of these next month. One's taking us out for food and the other has invited me to her home for drinks.
[Edited at 2022-08-12 14:52 GMT]
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