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下列句子是中国式英语吗?
Gijos autorius: Sherwin Zhou
wherestip
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目前 May 17, 2009

Sherwin Zhou wrote:


1) Now,we are working hard at English.(Now 多余,因为 are working 已经表示现在正在进行)



Her criticism of the usage of "now" as redundant is due to her lack of understanding of the Chinese. The original Chinese 目前 means "At the present (period of) time", not "right this minute".

However, I agree that using the word "now" in this sentence is ambiguous without referring to the Chinese. The word "now" indeed would be redundant if the original Chinese was "我们正在专心学英语" (现在正在进行的动作).



[Edited at 2009-05-17 21:04 GMT]


 
wherestip
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Anyway May 17, 2009

I agree that three of the four sample sentences are not very good English, but for reasons entirely different than what Ms. Pinkham pointed out.



[Edited at 2009-05-17 19:38 GMT]


 
Sherwin Zhou
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非常感谢 May 18, 2009

非常感谢wherestip;
她的书都是英文的,现贴一段书中原话,大家看得更明白些。
"One kind of redundant modifier that often appears in Chinglish is the adverb indicating the time of an action. We noted in Chapter I that the noun phrases expressing time ('at present,''in the future,'and'in the past')are usually superfluous in English, where their function is served by the tense of the verb. The same is true of adverbs expressing time:
A: Now the goverme
... See more
非常感谢wherestip;
她的书都是英文的,现贴一段书中原话,大家看得更明白些。
"One kind of redundant modifier that often appears in Chinglish is the adverb indicating the time of an action. We noted in Chapter I that the noun phrases expressing time ('at present,''in the future,'and'in the past')are usually superfluous in English, where their function is served by the tense of the verb. The same is true of adverbs expressing time:
A: Now the goverment is working hard to improve taxation
(改为)
B: the goverment is working hard to improve taxation

Another redundant modifier typical of Chinglish is the adjective 'various'. Again, we saw in Chapter I that the noun phrases 'a series of,''all sorts of,' and 'various kinds of' do not generally need to be carried over in translation. While in Chinese they are often necessary to indicate a plural, in English the plural is shown by the form of the noun ending in-s.'various' is usually superluous for the same reason:
A:hundreds of transnational firms have started various businesses in China
(改为)
B:hundreds of transnational firms have started businesses in China"

[修改时间: 2009-05-18 02:28 GMT]
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wherestip
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Improper English May 18, 2009

Sherwin Zhou wrote:

非常感谢wherestip;
她的书都是英文的,现贴一段书中原话,大家看得更明白些。
"One kind of redundant modifier that often appears in Chinglish is the adverb indicating the time of an action. We noted in Chapter I that the noun phrases expressing time ('at present,''in the future,'and'in the past')are usually superfluous in English, where their function is served by the tense of the verb. The same is true of adverbs expressing time:
A: Now the goverment is working hard to improve taxation
(改为)
B: the goverment is working hard to improve taxation

Another redundant modifier typical of Chinglish is the adjective 'various'. Again, we saw in Chapter I that the noun phrases 'a series of,''all sorts of,' and 'various kinds of' do not generally need to be carried over in translation. While in Chinese they are often necessary to indicate a plural, in English the plural is shown by the form of the noun ending in-s.'various' is usually superluous for the same reason:
A:hundreds of transnational firms have started various businesses in China
(改为)
B:hundreds of transnational firms have started businesses in China"




Sherwin,

You're welcome.

Like I said yesterday: "要看她的主要议题是什么. 如果是在讲 redundancy, 这些小的地方便可加以讨论或考虑."

As we all know, English has verbal inflections to signify the past, present, or future tense, while the Chinese language does not. Also, the majority of English nouns are made plural by affixing an "s" to the end of the singular, while Chinese uses a variety of other means to distinguish between singular and plural. I think the author correctly pointed out these noted differences between the two languages. She probably also witnessed enough poorly translated Chinese-to-English texts to make the generalizations that she did. I guess anyone who wants to write a guidebook on so-called "Chinglish" has to come up with some kind of generalization in order to be an authority on the subject.

Whether her criticism was justified or not, I don't know. I really haven't read enough Chinese-to-English translations to say one way or another. But like I said before, from what I've seen on the web, a superfluous temporal adverb or an extraneous adjective here and there is not really the main problem of many of the poorly translated Chinese-to-English texts.

Anyway, this is indeed an interesting topic you brought up.


 
Sherwin Zhou
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Thanks Again! May 19, 2009

谢谢 Wherestip;
关于"various",我还是不太同意她的观点,可能我的中文思维已经根深蒂固了,总是认为:很多种鞋子 和 很多鞋子 是两个不同的概念;感觉遇到 “种类”的时候,如果不翻译出 various或 a variety of或 kinds of ---就觉得漏译了什么,就觉得不够准确。

(你贴的那个绿色的笑脸很好玩,我也想贴个,咋就搞不出来呢)


 
wherestip
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various May 19, 2009

Sherwin Zhou wrote:

谢谢 Wherestip;
关于"various",我还是不太同意她的观点,可能我的中文思维已经根深蒂固了,总是认为:很多种鞋子 和 很多鞋子 是两个不同的概念;感觉遇到 “种类”的时候,如果不翻译出 various或 a variety of或 kinds of ---就觉得漏译了什么,就觉得不够准确。

(你贴的那个绿色的笑脸很好玩,我也想贴个,咋就搞不出来呢)


Sherwin,

I'm with you. I think the author's argument is based on the differences between the two languages. She argues that in English a plural is typically made by affixing an "s" to the end of a singular noun, whereas in Chinese this is accomplished by other devices such as using "们", "几个", "一些", "一群", "很多", "各种各样", etc., etc. Thus she argues that the English word "various" is used as a crutch by many Chinese when they want to express the plural form.

This could indeed be the case if phrases like "various", "a variety of", "all kinds of" etc. are misappropriated as an expediency for expressing the idea of "multiple items", but not necessarily true if they are properly used - "这家商店出售各种款式的鞋"便应属于后面这类. 这句话和 "这家是卖鞋的" 大有不同.

I think the reason you can't get the smiley face is because of the fonts you're using. Notice your fonts are different than mine. I think you need to change to the "English only" mode. You might need to get some help from those who use the Chinese version of Windows.



[Edited at 2009-05-19 14:07 GMT]


 
wherestip
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punctuation marks May 19, 2009

wherestip wrote:


I think the reason you can't get the smiley face is because of the fonts you're using. Notice your fonts are different than mine. I think you need to change to the "English only" mode. You might need to get some help from those who use the Chinese version of Windows.



Sorry ... Bad advice.

Upon further examination, there seems to be no difference in the English fonts. But I know there is a difference in punctuation marks. Change to the Western style mode for punctuation marks whenever you want to make a smiley. It should work if you use the Western style colon ":" instead of the Chinese style one ":"


 
Sherwin Zhou
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谢谢!我来试试看 May 20, 2009

')

[Edited at 2009-05-20 01:35 GMT] ") 耶!出来很多小脸了,就是您那个笑法的 搞不出来:)

[Edited at 2009-05-20 01:36 GMT]


 
wherestip
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:D , :-D , or :grin: May 20, 2009

Sherwin Zhou wrote:

') 耶!出来很多小脸了,就是您那个笑法的 搞不出来:)



Okay. The punctuation marks you're using are the correct kind, i.e., Western style.

Now try a colon followed by an uppercase D, like so:

: D

Notice that there's actually no space in between the colon and the letter D. I only put one there to avoid a real turquoise-colored smiley from being displayed.

Another way is to put two colons around the word "grin", like so:

:grin :

... also without any spaces between characters. The results should be the same.



[Edited at 2009-05-20 11:59 GMT]


 
Sherwin Zhou
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Thank You! May 21, 2009



 
wherestip
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"The Translator's Guide to Chinglish" by Joan Pinkham May 22, 2009

Here are a few links to some excerpts, reviews, and discussions ...

http://bbs.smthome.net/simple/t173418.html

http://www.ecocn.org/bbs/archiver/tid-8427.html
... See more
Here are a few links to some excerpts, reviews, and discussions ...

http://bbs.smthome.net/simple/t173418.html

http://www.ecocn.org/bbs/archiver/tid-8427.html

http://www.rainlane.com/dispbbs.asp?boardid=11&id=10702

http://bbs.joyen.net/redirect.php?tid=140&goto=lastpost&highlight=



[Edited at 2009-05-22 17:08 GMT]
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wherestip
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"Engdarin", anyone? May 23, 2009

I wonder why no one has yet to put the two words "English" and "Madarin" together to refer to the kind of Chinese so prevalent today that has a strong Anglo, or foreign, flavor.

A friend of mine told me that someone he knew claimed to be an expert on "Span-Chinglish" I think the person meant "Spanglish".


 
wherestip
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畅行的蹩脚中文 May 23, 2009

wherestip wrote:

I wonder why no one has yet to put the two words "English" and "Madarin" together to refer to the kind of Chinese so prevalent today that has a strong Anglo, or foreign, flavor.



I guess in Chinese you just refer to this as "经典误译"


 
wherestip
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"成套设备", "equipment set" May 25, 2009

"成套设备" 翻作 "equipment set"

I think this past example supports Ms. Pinkham's gripe about redundant modifiers somewhat. IMO the single word "equipment" ought to suffice for "成套设备" in most situations. As we know, "equipment" usually refers to the whole apparatus that accomplishes a certain task or operation.
... See more
"成套设备" 翻作 "equipment set"

I think this past example supports Ms. Pinkham's gripe about redundant modifiers somewhat. IMO the single word "equipment" ought to suffice for "成套设备" in most situations. As we know, "equipment" usually refers to the whole apparatus that accomplishes a certain task or operation.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/equipment
1 a: the set of articles or physical resources serving to equip a person or thing: as (1): the implements used in an operation or activity : apparatus (sports equipment) ...

For the sample text in question, I actually would have opted for either "The Model 1250 Mixer/Kneader ..." or "The Model 1250 Integrated Mixer/Kneader ...", and left it at that. On this point, I agree with how dumont handled the translation.


http://www.proz.com/post/1109396#1109396

ysun wrote:

我同意 Steve 的译法。我认为“1250型混捏成套设备”还可译为 Model 1250 mixing/kneading unit。

许多人在翻译“成套设备”时比较喜欢用 set 或 “a complete set of equipment" 之类的说法。汉英词典也是如此说。但我多年来所遇到的西方商人和技术人员却很少这样说。



http://www.proz.com/post/1109458#1109458

wherestip wrote:

I agree, Yueyin. You'd often hear toolset, silverware set, dinette set, etc. etc. but not so much "equipment set".

Of course the terms "equipment set" and "a complete set of equipment" are totally understandable, and there are probably plenty of google hits for them.

For "成套设备", "equipment ensemble" or "machine ensemble" sounds a lot better to me.





[Edited at 2009-05-25 17:33 GMT]
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ysun
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"成套设备" May 26, 2009

Steve,

对于"成套设备",存在着不同的理解。以前在国内搞引进时,我们所谓的"成套设备"是指为实现某工艺过程(a process)而由许多设备组成的一整套装置,即 a plant。至于一台完整的单台设备,例如透平、压缩机等,我们称其为“单机”。所谓的 "a complete set of equipment" 其实只是单机而已。如果是由关系比较密切的两台单机如电机和压缩机所组成的一套装置(机组),我们称其为a unit或 a train。在那个例子中,像 mixer 和 kneader 这样的设备,其实是属于“单机”的范畴。如果把整个混捏工序的所有设备都算上,才可算是一套"成套设备"。


 
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下列句子是中国式英语吗?






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