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每小时翻译字数 Thread poster: XIAODAN SUN
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Loise
France
Local time: 01:11
French to Chinese
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| curious natures | Apr 18, 2013 |
我觉得 curious natures 似乎意味着人们碍于习俗、成规、面子等，平时不轻易向人揭露的一面，所以 natures 应是一种倾向、性格或性情，是可数的。这性格或性情之所以 curious，正因为它平时不为人知，所以让聆听的人有点诧异、略感到些许吃惊。我的理解是这样的。
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wherestip 
United States
Local time: 18:11
Chinese to English
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Loise wrote:
我觉得 curious natures 似乎意味着人们碍于习俗、成规、面子等，平时不轻易向人揭露的一面，所以 natures 应是一种倾向、性格或性情，是可数的。这性格或性情之所以 curious，正因为它平时不为人知，所以让聆听的人有点诧异、略感到些许吃惊。我的理解是这样的。
I think this is a more straightforward interpretation. The more literary interpretation would be exactly like the examples that Phil gave:
nature 跟 bore 的确可以视为相对应的，所以把它理解为人也没错。这是一种很常见的metonymy/synecdoche (借代），用人的一部分来代表人：
They have some good heads working here.
I need a few quick hands today.
The old church has only 20 souls in it on a Sunday.
I'd rather have one good heart on my side than 10 clever tongues.
所以在含义层次上，nature=性格=人。
"Natures" here does form a very elegant literary juxtaposition with "bores" by the original author. That's also one of the reasons why I agree more with Wu's interpretation and translation.
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Loise
France
Local time: 01:11
French to Chinese
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| 即使 nature 跟 bore 可以视为“有关系的”…… | Apr 18, 2013 |
wherestip wrote: Loise wrote:
我觉得 curious natures 似乎意味着人们碍于习俗、成规、面子等，平时不轻易向人揭露的一面，所以 natures 应是一种倾向、性格或性情，是可数的。这性格或性情之所以 curious，正因为它平时不为人知，所以让聆听的人有点诧异、略感到些许吃惊。我的理解是这样的。 I think this is a more straightforward interpretation. The more literary interpretation would be exactly like the examples that Phil gave:
nature 跟 bore 的确可以视为相对应的，所以把它理解为人也没错。这是一种很常见的metonymy/synecdoche (借代），用人的一部分来代表人：
They have some good heads working here.
I need a few quick hands today.
The old church has only 20 souls in it on a Sunday.
I'd rather have one good heart on my side than 10 clever tongues.
所以在含义层次上，nature=性格=人。
"Natures" here does form a very elegant literary juxtaposition with "bores" by the original author. That's also one of the reasons why I agree more with Wu's interpretation and translation.
我认为 nature 跟 bore 的确是有关系，不过，这未必是“nature-bore”=“人—人”的对应关系。因为一个人平时不是讨厌鬼，假如他突然毫无禁忌地表露出一些幽微的（深藏不露的，不为人知的）“curious natures”，他可能就变成讨厌鬼了。我觉得 a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me 和 a habit that made me the victim of not a few veteran bores 并不是对应关系，而是因果关系：他的保留态度开启了潘多拉的盒子，释放出人性幽玄的一面，使得身旁的人们换了一张脸，变成了唠叨不休的讨厌鬼了。
[Edited at 2013-04-18 14:36 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:11
Chinese to English
+ ...
Loise wrote:
我认为 nature 跟 bore 的确是有关系，不过，这未必是“nature-bore”=“人—人”的对应关系。因为一个人平时不是讨厌鬼，假如他突然毫无禁忌地表露出一些幽微的（深藏不露的，不为人知的）“curious natures”，他可能就变成讨厌鬼了。
You have to look at the whole sentence. To open "natures" in the sense of personality traits is just not that plausible a thing to do. The interpretation is superficial to say the least. The narrator's congenial personality made people want to open up to him and spill their guts.
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:11
Chinese to English
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| My patience is wearing thin | Apr 18, 2013 |
Interpret it the way you want. It's become a bore.
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Loise
France
Local time: 01:11
French to Chinese
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| open sb up vs. open st up | Apr 18, 2013 |
wherestip wrote: Loise wrote:
我认为 nature 跟 bore 的确是有关系，不过，这未必是“nature-bore”=“人—人”的对应关系。因为一个人平时不是讨厌鬼，假如他突然毫无禁忌地表露出一些幽微的（深藏不露的，不为人知的）“curious natures”，他可能就变成讨厌鬼了。 You have to look at the whole sentence. To open "natures" in the sense of personality traits is just not that plausible a thing to do. The interpretation is superficial to say the least. The narrator's congenial personality made people want to open up to him and spill their guts.
你这样说，让我想到 open up sb vs. open up st 的意思应是不同的。open up st 可理解为打开一个东西，或是 reveal st，揭露一个东西，让它呈现出来。至于 open up sb 是什么意思，我就不解了。像开刀那样打开一个人吗？
cf. Free Dictionnary: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/open%20up
open something up
Fig. to reveal the possibilities of something; to reveal an opportunity.
open something up (to someone)
to make something available to someone; to permit someone to join something or participate in something.
[Edited at 2013-04-18 15:08 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:11
Chinese to English
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| More experienced English speakers | Apr 18, 2013 |
Loise wrote: wherestip wrote: Loise wrote:
我认为 nature 跟 bore 的确是有关系，不过，这未必是“nature-bore”=“人—人”的对应关系。因为一个人平时不是讨厌鬼，假如他突然毫无禁忌地表露出一些幽微的（深藏不露的，不为人知的）“curious natures”，他可能就变成讨厌鬼了。 You have to look at the whole sentence. To open "natures" in the sense of personality traits is just not that plausible a thing to do. The interpretation is superficial to say the least. The narrator's congenial personality made people want to open up to him and spill their guts. 你这样说，让我想到 open up sb vs. open up st 的意思应是不同的。open up st 可理解为打开一个东西，或是 reveal st，揭露一个东西，让它呈现出来。至于 open up sb 是什么意思，我就不解了。像开刀那样打开一个人吗？
Loise,
My suggestion to you is to go back and read what some of the other posters had to say on this. like Phil and Rita. I don't think any of us are just trying to blow smoke in this forum.
I think Li has a similar issue. He thinks Wu's rendering into Chinese is subpar. But he doesn't realize that Wu's English is multiple times better than his.
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:11
Chinese to English
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| Just my opinion | Apr 18, 2013 |
Loise wrote: wherestip wrote: Loise wrote:
我认为 nature 跟 bore 的确是有关系，不过，这未必是“nature-bore”=“人—人”的对应关系。因为一个人平时不是讨厌鬼，假如他突然毫无禁忌地表露出一些幽微的（深藏不露的，不为人知的）“curious natures”，他可能就变成讨厌鬼了。 You have to look at the whole sentence. To open "natures" in the sense of personality traits is just not that plausible a thing to do. The interpretation is superficial to say the least. The narrator's congenial personality made people want to open up to him and spill their guts. 你这样说，让我想到 open up sb vs. open up st 的意思应是不同的。open up st 可理解为打开一个东西，或是 reveal st，揭露一个东西，让它呈现出来。至于 open up sb 是什么意思，我就不解了。像开刀那样打开一个人吗？ cf. Free Dictionnary: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/open%20up open something up Fig. to reveal the possibilities of something; to reveal an opportunity. open something up (to someone) to make something available to someone; to permit someone to join something or participate in something.
Loise,
I already stated to J.H. that I think both interpretations are correct. But I agree with the interpretation of opening someone up more. So does Phil, so does Rita, and so does Wu.
It's really not a matter of pulling rank. If all the native English speakers say this is what the English means, there's probably a very valid reason. Don't you think?
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Loise
France
Local time: 01:11
French to Chinese
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| 那么 open up sb/open sb up 是什么意思？ | Apr 18, 2013 |
wherestip wrote: Loise wrote: wherestip wrote: Loise wrote:
我认为 nature 跟 bore 的确是有关系，不过，这未必是“nature-bore”=“人—人”的对应关系。因为一个人平时不是讨厌鬼，假如他突然毫无禁忌地表露出一些幽微的（深藏不露的，不为人知的）“curious natures”，他可能就变成讨厌鬼了。 You have to look at the whole sentence. To open "natures" in the sense of personality traits is just not that plausible a thing to do. The interpretation is superficial to say the least. The narrator's congenial personality made people want to open up to him and spill their guts. 你这样说，让我想到 open up sb vs. open up st 的意思应是不同的。open up st 可理解为打开一个东西，或是 reveal st，揭露一个东西，让它呈现出来。至于 open up sb 是什么意思，我就不解了。像开刀那样打开一个人吗？ Loise, My suggestion to you is to go back and read what some of the other posters had to say on this. like Phil and Rita. I don't think any of us are just trying to blow smoke in this forum. I think Li has a similar issue. He thinks Wu's rendering into Chinese is subpar. But he doesn't realize that Wu's English is multiple times better than his.
听过 I open myself up to my best friend; open yourself up to the world! An experienced psychoanalysist is good at making his clients want to open up 等说法，但不知 open up sb 还能怎么用，这里的sb是open up的受词，但你们所说的make poeple open up， people open themselves up 的people却是open up行动的主词，这该如何解释呢？More experienced English speakers 可以举个例子吗？
我们可以说 a habit made people open up to me，但说 a habit opened up people to me 也行吗？
[Edited at 2013-04-18 15:45 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:11
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Please read these 2 posts first | Apr 18, 2013 |
Rita Pang wrote: I completely agree Phil Hand wrote: J.H. Wang wrote:
就是”为....创造机会、可能性“的意思，这样来讲，a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me，的意思似乎是说：这种习性使我有机会/得以接触许多古怪的人， Excuse me for writing in English for speed: That's a possible reading on a word-by-word basis, but given the logic of the passage, it's not the most natural interpretation. The point is that Nick is quiet. He doesn't talk, he lets others talk. So people say things to him that they wouldn't normally say. "Open up" here is naturally understood as "opening up a person", not opening up access to people. And yeah, Steve is absolutely right about the Wu translation: from the samples we've seen it's a very accurate reading of the English, just not elegant or idiomatic in its Chinese expression. Nick Harraway is the narrator who everybody wants to talk to, many a times he actually prefers to be left alone....e.g. his initial meeting with Tom Buchanan's mistress is testimony to his reaction (he was uncomfortable being there, but Tom liked his presence). People open up to him, not the other way around. And yes, when they open up to him, it's more so along the lines of "confiding their darkest of secrets" to him, but it also involves any type of chatter.
>>> He was a very quiet person that kept to himself. But my persistence in befriending him eventually opened him up.
Of course he is the one that eventually opened up to me. But my friendliness is what achieved the results.
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Loise
France
Local time: 01:11
French to Chinese
+ ...
| "getting/making a person open up" rather than "open up a person" | Apr 18, 2013 |
我还是觉得getting/making a person open up听起来比较自然。
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:11
Chinese to English
+ ...
Loise wrote:
我还是觉得getting/making a person open up听起来比较自然。
But that's why they call it literature.
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Loise
France
Local time: 01:11
French to Chinese
+ ...
| litteratural expressions are not always "unnatural" | Apr 18, 2013 |
wherestip wrote: Loise wrote:
我还是觉得getting/making a person open up听起来比较自然。 But that's why they call it literature.
海明威的写作风格自然，不是刻意造作的作者。如果 curious natures 是人的话，那么他说： a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me （不自然的用语），而非 a habit that has made many curious natures open up to me （较为自然的用语），这就很奇怪了。
我还是觉得open up = reveal、make visible，而 curious natures 意味着古怪的性情、脾气、个性、倾向。
a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me = 这个习惯对我揭露了许多古怪的性情（脾气），或这个习惯让我见识了许多古怪的性情（脾气、个性）。
[Edited at 2013-04-18 16:27 GMT]
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:11
Chinese to English
+ ...
Loise wrote: wherestip wrote: Loise wrote:
我还是觉得getting/making a person open up听起来比较自然。 But that's why they call it literature. 海明威的写作风格自然，不是刻意造作的作者。如果 curious natures 是人的话，那么他说： a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me （不自然的用语），而非 a habit that has made many curious natures open up to me （较为自然的用语），这就很奇怪了。 我还是觉得open up = reveal、make visible，而 curious natures 意味着古怪的性情、脾气、个性、倾向。 a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me = 这个习惯对我揭露了许多古怪的性情（脾气），或这个习惯让我见识了许多古怪的性情（脾气、个性）。
Fine, you win.
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Loise
France
Local time: 01:11
French to Chinese
+ ...
| there's no winner in this discussion | Apr 18, 2013 |
wherestip wrote: Loise wrote: wherestip wrote: Loise wrote:
我还是觉得getting/making a person open up听起来比较自然。 But that's why they call it literature. 海明威的写作风格自然，不是刻意造作的作者。如果 curious natures 是人的话，那么他说： a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me （不自然的用语），而非 a habit that has made many curious natures open up to me （较为自然的用语），这就很奇怪了。 我还是觉得open up = reveal、make visible，而 curious natures 意味着古怪的性情、脾气、个性、倾向。 a habit that has opened up many curious natures to me = 这个习惯对我揭露了许多古怪的性情（脾气），或这个习惯让我见识了许多古怪的性情（脾气、个性）。 Fine, you win.
^^
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