| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | agency does not provide copy of deliverables Thread poster: Heike Schmidt
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 09:54
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Heike Schmidt wrote:
I have come across an agency that does not per default let translators export a copy of their translation when working with the online tool provided by the agency for free.
I agree that if the translator requests this, then it is not an unreasonable request.
It has happened to me that a client questions the quality of my work, and when I ask for examples, they send me a version of my work that has been edited (read: broken) by another translator. If I have a copy of my original translation, I can then defend myself, and convince the client that I'm still a good translator, worthy of future jobs for them.
When I do defend myself in this manner, I don't submit *files* as proof -- I simply tell them "my translation was X, your current text is Y, therefore your current text was edited by someone after me", and the project manager then accepts my word for it. But I won't be able to tell them those things if I don't have a copy of my own translation.
I have made clear to them that for legal reasons I need proof of what I have delivered. This sounds so obvious to me that I'm wondering how an agency could not understand this.
There is no legal requirement in my own country for keeping copies of my work, and I'm not surprised that the client would find such a claim unusual.
However, you do make a good point: if the client or their assigns were to sue me, they would have to prove that my translation was inadequate, and I would feel much better if I had copies of those files myself, in case their lawyers decide to submit false evidence -- since, after all, anyone using one of those online project management systems can make a mistake w.r.t. which step or whose work is being exported for evidence, and it would be impossible for me to prove that they had made such a mistake.
[Edited at 2024-01-05 10:38 GMT]
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 09:54
Member (2009)
English to German
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| You OWN your translation | Jan 5 |
as others have explained, until payment.
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Zea_Mays wrote:
Do you know Murphy's Law? Simply put, it says that whatever can happen will happen. You just don't know when and if it will happen to you.
But I don’t stand under elephants.
Even in the extreme scenarios people are presenting here, why would an agency go after you if the reviser messed up your translation? As the last pair of eyes, surely they’d get the blame?
| | | | Tomasz Sienicki
Denmark
Local time: 09:54
Member (2007)
Danish to Polish
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Christopher Schröder wrote:
Even in the extreme scenarios people are presenting here, why would an agency go after you
Such scenarios are not extreme, but quite common; for example when you need to verify if a particular phrase or term came from the TM or from you. Last time it happened to me was actually yesterday – the end client discovered a mistake in the translation; the agency contacted me and it turned out the mistake was in a locked segment that I wasn't assigned to check. If I hadn't had a copy, I'd never have known if it was my fault or not.
I also recall a situation when an employee of the end client messed up the translation after delivery and then another employee complained to the agency. The agency immediately blamed me for the errors without even bothering to investigate. To defend myself, I had to provide the original translation exactly as I had delivered it. Both the agency and the end client eventually apologized. Again, if I hadn't kept a copy, I might not have recalled the details of that older job.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 09:54
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Zea_Mays wrote:
You OWN your translation ... as others have explained, until payment.
Sure, but if you send the client your translation and you don't take steps to retain a copy of your own translations, then you can't blame the client (but: it would not be unreasonable to ask the client to send you a copy of your translation once you have completed it).
Every time you type a translation into a segment in an online tool, you have the opportunity to copy/paste that translation into Notepad for your own reference. The OP's issue is not with the client "taking" the translation before they have paid for it, but with the client not making it easy for the translator to obtain a copy of it.
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 09:54
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote: Zea_Mays wrote:
You OWN your translation ... as others have explained, until payment. Sure, but if you send the client your translation and you don't take steps to retain a copy of your own translations, then you can't blame the client (but: it would not be unreasonable to ask the client to send you a copy of your translation once you have completed it)....
But the agency in question is not allowing translators exactly this, exporting their own translations.
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Tomasz Sienicki wrote: Christopher Schröder wrote: Even in the extreme scenarios people are presenting here, why would an agency go after you Such scenarios are not extreme, but quite common; for example when you need to verify if a particular phrase or term came from the TM or from you. Last time it happened to me was actually yesterday – the end client discovered a mistake in the translation; the agency contacted me and it turned out the mistake was in a locked segment that I wasn't assigned to check. If I hadn't had a copy, I'd never have known if it was my fault or not. I also recall a situation when an employee of the end client messed up the translation after delivery and then another employee complained to the agency. The agency immediately blamed me for the errors without even bothering to investigate. To defend myself, I had to provide the original translation exactly as I had delivered it. Both the agency and the end client eventually apologized. Again, if I hadn't kept a copy, I might not have recalled the details of that older job.
OK, fair enough. Although in neither case did it go to court, and in both cases the agency has the information. I can’t see it ending up being an issue.
A tiny part of my work comes from one of the top three global agencies and is done in their own CAT tool and I cannot export my translation. But the system saves everything under the name of who did what, so apportioning blame would be straightforward. I don’t have a problem with that, and neither apparently do the tens of thousands of other translators that work for them, many of whom are barely literate, so it can’t be a big issue in practice.
| | | | Heike Schmidt
Local time: 09:54
Italian to German
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TOPIC STARTER | discussing quality issues | Jan 8 |
Tomasz Sienicki wrote:
the end client discovered a mistake in the translation; the agency contacted me and it turned out the mistake was in a locked segment that I wasn't assigned to check.
Absolutely, this is an every day example, as is the one by Samuel about translations being changed by an editor. We take responsibility for our work, not only in court but also when it comes to discussing (alleged) quality issues with PMs or clients.
Cheers,
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Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:54
Serbian to English
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| Flying pigs and the real world ... | Jan 14 |
Christopher Schröder wrote: Daryo wrote:
Are you pretending or ... you really missed my point?
In case of a dispute ending up in court or arbitration, you won't need to prove anything to the other side, but to the judge or the arbiter, who has no reason to believe you more than the other side.
Just curious to know how you would do it if all the evidence is in the hands of the other party, and you have nothing to prove what you're claiming?
But then, the other party keeping for themselves all the evidence that they don't like, that must be one more of these things that could never happen? I think it’s because I’m neither incompetent nor paranoid. The likelihood of any of my clients suing me is zero. Even if I were an incompetent bottom feeder picking up scraps on ProZ, the chances of legal action would be close to non-existent. Do you take out insurance to protect yourself against the chances of an elephant landing on your head?
Not sure about elephants landing on anyone's head, but I remember one case of a big fat pig (not BoJo) landing on someone's head. Read about if decades ago, and it was so unusual I still remember it. Happened in Napoli (the one in Italy) few years after WW II. Someone was keeping a pig on their balcony, and feeding it food rests. The building was quite old, and the pig was getting heavier and heavier. At some point the balcony gave way, and after a short flight the pig landed on an unlucky passer-by.
Now, to go back from entertaining diversions to the main topic, if you have no proof of what exactly you have delivered, or that you've delivered anything at all, then chances of **you** taking any action (legal or pre-claim) against a bad-faith or misguided client are for sure 101% non-existent.
"The likelihood of any of my clients suing me is zero."
That well might be true right now for your current clients, but just wait one of them gets taken over by some big agency, and you end up with a project manager obsessed with showing off to his/her boss by shafting service providers any which way he/she can. One more of those things that surely could never happen?
Websites specialised in "naming and shaming" bad payers/non payers must be the figment of my imagination - how could things like that possibly ever happen? You know, the kind of websites echoing with wails from translators who will never get paid, because they were not enough "paranoid" before taking a job?
[Edited at 2024-01-14 19:52 GMT]
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