| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | agency does not provide copy of deliverables Thread poster: Heike Schmidt
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Dear fellow translators,
I have come across an agency that does not per default let translators export a copy of their translation when working with the online tool provided by the agency for free.
All they have to do is activate the option but they do not want to do this on a general basis. I have made clear to them that for legal reasons I need proof of what I have delivered. This sounds so obvious to me that I'm wondering how an agency could not understand this. We ... See more Dear fellow translators,
I have come across an agency that does not per default let translators export a copy of their translation when working with the online tool provided by the agency for free.
All they have to do is activate the option but they do not want to do this on a general basis. I have made clear to them that for legal reasons I need proof of what I have delivered. This sounds so obvious to me that I'm wondering how an agency could not understand this. We can be hold responsible for errors after all. Besides, I don't know if there could be problems with my third-party insurance.
Have you ever experienced this?
Cheers
Heike ▲ Collapse
| | | | | No, and I would simply not work on those terms | Dec 17, 2023 |
I do appreciate that sometimes translators are entrusted with highly confidential documents and information. I delete the most sensitive, but I keep documentation of my work, and I keep anonymised notes of the terminology etc. where appropriate, even of the confidential material.
That is how a translator accumulates experience!
I insist on using my own CAT tool, or no CAT tool at all, and then I have copies of what I deliver automatically, as long as I need it.
... See more I do appreciate that sometimes translators are entrusted with highly confidential documents and information. I delete the most sensitive, but I keep documentation of my work, and I keep anonymised notes of the terminology etc. where appropriate, even of the confidential material.
That is how a translator accumulates experience!
I insist on using my own CAT tool, or no CAT tool at all, and then I have copies of what I deliver automatically, as long as I need it.
I hope you find more reasonable clients to work for! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Legal reasons? | Dec 17, 2023 |
Why would you need a copy for legal reasons? Don’t you mean you want a copy so that you can recycle it in your future translations? I get the annoyance with these systems, but I can also understand why they might work that way. You don’t own your translation…
| | | | Heike Schmidt
Local time: 08:25
Italian to German
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TOPIC STARTER | actually, liability reasons | Dec 17, 2023 |
I indeed did not express myself very clearly. I mean liability. I need proof of what I delivered. If somebody (a reviewer or whoever) messes with my translation and introduces an error, I need to be able to proof it wasn't mine.
Or think of the classic example: you translate a leaflet and it goes into printing. Because of an error or typo in translation, the leaflet needs reprinting. You could be asked to indemnify the client. In that scenario you would need to be able to look up w... See more I indeed did not express myself very clearly. I mean liability. I need proof of what I delivered. If somebody (a reviewer or whoever) messes with my translation and introduces an error, I need to be able to proof it wasn't mine.
Or think of the classic example: you translate a leaflet and it goes into printing. Because of an error or typo in translation, the leaflet needs reprinting. You could be asked to indemnify the client. In that scenario you would need to be able to look up what you delivered to see if the error was yours.
How would you otherwise be able to do that?
Cheers,
Heike ▲ Collapse
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:25
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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I commonly have export options even in online systems. If I use them, I use them to check target translation in its printable format.
Can your PC take screenshots with dates? You can do that. Or screencast with the date of recording. Just an idea, if you’re so concerned. Inform the agency of this and tell them the reasons.
Actually your liability reasons are legitimate, especially considering the peanut proofreaders who have no idea what they’re doing. But the right... See more I commonly have export options even in online systems. If I use them, I use them to check target translation in its printable format.
Can your PC take screenshots with dates? You can do that. Or screencast with the date of recording. Just an idea, if you’re so concerned. Inform the agency of this and tell them the reasons.
Actually your liability reasons are legitimate, especially considering the peanut proofreaders who have no idea what they’re doing. But the right thing would be to list these concerns to the agency (not that it will change anything). If you don’t feel comfortable with them, then maybe withdraw.
[Edited at 2023-12-17 21:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Heike Schmidt
Local time: 08:25
Italian to German
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TOPIC STARTER | it's not so much about me but wondering about how other translators work | Dec 18, 2023 |
Actually your liability reasons are legitimate, especially considering the peanut proofreaders who have no idea what they’re doing. But the right thing would be to list these concerns to the agency (not that it will change anything). If you don’t feel comfortable with them, then maybe withdraw.
[Edited at 2023-12-17 21:39 GMT]
The agency agreed to activate the option for me. But apparently most of their translators just abide by what the agency chooses them to do. It's just not clear to me how these translators cannot see the liability problem when not having any proof of their deliverables. When we used to deliver translations by mail it was much easier. We simply had everything on file. When it was delivered and what was delivered.
Cheers,
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Heike Schmidt wrote:
Or think of the classic example: you translate a leaflet and it goes into printing. Because of an error or typo in translation, the leaflet needs reprinting. You could be asked to indemnify the client. In that scenario you would need to be able to look up what you delivered to see if the error was yours.
How would you otherwise be able to do that?
1. That never happens. We still haven't had anyone on this site give a single example of someone being sued.
2. The client knows what you delivered, as these systems are set up to show exactly who did what.
3. You don't need to prove innocence. Someone else needs to prove guilt.
The fact that nobody else is bothered by it must mean something...
But great that you got the result you wanted!
| | | | | I beg to differ | Dec 23, 2023 |
Christopher Schröder wrote:
Why would you need a copy for legal reasons? Don’t you mean you want a copy so that you can recycle it in your future translations? I get the annoyance with these systems, but I can also understand why they might work that way. You don’t own your translation…
You mentioned that "You don't own your translation..." above, but if the client does not pay you for a legitimate reason, you could say that the translation is "yours" until you have been fully compensated for the work delivered. If I remember correctly, this has been discussed before in the forums. If you buy something in installments, for example, a house, or even a car, and if you haven't fully paid for it or worse, haven't paid at all, you MAY be using that house to live in or drive around, but that particular item belongs to the bank or a loan company and not you.
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| What I meant | Dec 23, 2023 |
Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
, you could say that the translation is "yours" until you have been fully compensated for the work delivered. .
Yes definitely. I meant you don’t have any rights to the translation once it’s been paid for. So arguably we don’t have a right to retain a copy so we can recycle it in future translations and get paid for it again and again. Which is what we normally do, of course. But clients don’t have to enable that, annoying as it can be.
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:25
Serbian to English
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| Shouldn't that be blindingly obvious?? | Dec 31, 2023 |
Christopher Schröder wrote:
Why would you need a copy for legal reasons? Don’t you mean you want a copy so that you can recycle it in your future translations? I get the annoyance with these systems, but I can also understand why they might work that way. You don’t own your translation…
In case of any kind of dispute, how are you going to prove what exactly you have delivered? That, for example, all the nonsense the client is rightly complaining about is the masterpiece from some clueless editor/revisor and not your doing?
What if some smart Alec decides not to pay you at all [never happens, right?], how are you going to prove that you have delivered anything??
BTW until you're paid in full YOU DO OWN your translation, and you need to keep all and any proof that you have done the work.
As for "things that never happen", I could give a longish list of very interesting things that "never happened". Here is one, just a small sample: there is no way that a reputable national company like Air France would sell you a ticket for a flight that's no longer flying for years? And you ending up stranded in the middle of Africa, with the clerk on the transit desk rolling on the floor laughing at your ticket for a non-existing flight?
Can't happen ever, right?
You don't need any proof that you've done the work, right?
[Edited at 2023-12-31 18:16 GMT]
| | | | Heike Schmidt
Local time: 08:25
Italian to German
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TOPIC STARTER | insurances are required for a reason | Jan 1 |
The fact that nobody else is bothered by it must mean something...
I said "apparently". I don't know. That's why I'm asking in this forum.
And by the way, years ago in a webinar the instructor mentioned that it had happened to him that a client complained about a translation and it turned out that the error was not his (because he was able to prove that it wasn't).
And @Christopher, why do you think that anybody would talk about being sued in this forum? And why do a lot of agencies require a liability insurance? Because nobody ever gets asked to indemnify?
Plus, I don't want to depend on the customer system to show what I have translated/delivered.
And last but not least, @all who discuss the recycling issue ... this is not about being able to recycle translations.
Cheers,
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Daryo wrote:
In case of any kind of dispute, how are you going to prove what exactly you have delivered? That, for example, all the nonsense the client is rightly complaining about is the masterpiece from some clueless editor/revisor and not your doing?
What if some smart Alec decides not to pay you at all [never happens, right?], how are you going to prove that you have delivered anything??
BTW until you're paid in full YOU DO OWN your translation, and you need to keep all and any proof that you have done the work.
As for "things that never happen", I could give a longish list of very interesting things that "never happened". Here is one, just a small sample: there is no way that a reputable national company like Air France would sell you a ticket for a flight that's no longer flying for years? And you ending up stranded in the middle of Africa, with the clerk on the transit desk rolling on the floor laughing at your ticket for a non-existing flight?
Can't happen ever, right?
You don't need any proof that you've done the work, right?
[Edited at 2023-12-31 18:16 GMT]
Rolling on the floor laughing? Yeah, right.
As likely as a scenario where you need to prove to an agency that has developed its own CAT software what you delivered.
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Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:25
Serbian to English
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| Are you pretending or ... | Jan 3 |
Christopher Schröder wrote: Daryo wrote:
In case of any kind of dispute, how are you going to prove what exactly you have delivered? That, for example, all the nonsense the client is rightly complaining about is the masterpiece from some clueless editor/revisor and not your doing?
What if some smart Alec decides not to pay you at all [never happens, right?], how are you going to prove that you have delivered anything??
BTW until you're paid in full YOU DO OWN your translation, and you need to keep all and any proof that you have done the work.
As for "things that never happen", I could give a longish list of very interesting things that "never happened". Here is one, just a small sample: there is no way that a reputable national company like Air France would sell you a ticket for a flight that's no longer flying for years? And you ending up stranded in the middle of Africa, with the clerk on the transit desk rolling on the floor laughing at your ticket for a non-existing flight?
Can't happen ever, right?
You don't need any proof that you've done the work, right?
[Edited at 2023-12-31 18:16 GMT] Rolling on the floor laughing? Yeah, right. As likely as a scenario where you need to prove to an agency that has developed its own CAT software what you delivered.
Are you pretending or ... you really missed my point?
In case of a dispute ending up in court or arbitration, you won't need to prove anything to the other side, but to the judge or the arbiter, who has no reason to believe you more than the other side.
Just curious to know how you would do it if all the evidence is in the hands of the other party, and you have nothing to prove what you're claiming?
But then, the other party keeping for themselves all the evidence that they don't like, that must be one more of these things that could never happen?
| | | | | Back in the real world… | Jan 4 |
Daryo wrote:
Are you pretending or ... you really missed my point?
In case of a dispute ending up in court or arbitration, you won't need to prove anything to the other side, but to the judge or the arbiter, who has no reason to believe you more than the other side.
Just curious to know how you would do it if all the evidence is in the hands of the other party, and you have nothing to prove what you're claiming?
But then, the other party keeping for themselves all the evidence that they don't like, that must be one more of these things that could never happen?
I think it’s because I’m neither incompetent nor paranoid.
The likelihood of any of my clients suing me is zero.
Even if I were an incompetent bottom feeder picking up scraps on ProZ, the chances of legal action would be close to non-existent.
Do you take out insurance to protect yourself against the chances of an elephant landing on your head?
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 08:25
Member (2009)
English to German
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Christopher Schröder wrote:
I think it’s because I’m neither incompetent nor paranoid.
The likelihood of any of my clients suing me is zero.
Even if I were an incompetent bottom feeder picking up scraps on ProZ, the chances of legal action would be close to non-existent.
Do you take out insurance to protect yourself against the chances of an elephant landing on your head?
Do you know Murphy's Law? Simply put, it says that whatever can happen will happen. You just don't know when and if it will happen to you.
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