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产品/公司名称翻译 Autor vlákna: Shiya Luo
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nigerose 
Čína
Local time: 13:53
čínština -> angličtina
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ysun wrote: nigerose wrote:
我知道你为什么说”causing damage to the insulation of the motor” 是现在分词短语了，因为你对原译者的英文句子也是不联系上下文而是断章取义地来理解（尽管原译者的第二分句没有译好）。当然，原译者本该更规范地写成”the starting current‘s causing damage to the insulation of the motor”，就漏写了“’s”，把你迷惑了。呵呵。 原译者的英文句子根本就是错的，上下文根本就是相互矛盾的，就跟 “吾盾之坚，物莫能陷也。吾矛之利，于物无不陷也” 那句话一样。试问，如何联系它的上下文？原译者的英文句子不是什么复合句，哪来什么“第二分句”。如果你指的是后面的 “reducing the mechanical torque damage to the unit”， 那么原译者英文句子的前半段就更没有译好，这里只有你一个人在为它辩护，说它“在语法上说得通”，还说什么“如果再直译回中文，可以是：”这可以减少启动电流造成电机绝缘损害“，与原文“这可以减少启动电流对电机绝缘的损害”意思一样，根本没有违背原文的意思。” 另外，原译者英文句子里写的是 “the starting current” 而不是 “the starting current’s”，根本就不是什么漏写了“’s”，你就不要为了满足你的需要而瞎改了。请你回忆一下你自己刚在上面所说的话：“原文没说的不要说（译），原文说了的不要漏说（漏译）。” “causing damage to the insulation of the motor” 本来就是现在分词短语，就跟后面的 “reducing the mechanical torque damage to the unit” 一样，只不过原译者用得不对罢了。建议你再去看看你那本张道真《实用英语语法》（最新版），尤其是如何用现在分词短语做状语那部分。
你没有张道真《实用英语语法》（最新版）就算了。
这里围观的人多，我是孤军作战。感兴趣又不发言的同仁可以翻翻张道真《实用英语语法》（最新版）或者其他语法书判断一下。
不管怎样，这样的讨论是有益的。我相信比我水平高的同仁大有人在，就不知道为什么高手都不来了。我也到此为止，呵呵。
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ysun
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 00:53
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wherestip wrote: 好了，我们不要争语法了。 实际上，Yueyin 说得很对。 原译者对中文的理解确实有出入。 虽然翻出的英文句子与原中文句子字对字对应，但他并没有抓住中文作者的本义。 不仅如此，他写出的英文句子不够明确，英文读者不一定明白究竟何所指。 说句笑：也许原译过于追求跟随原文，没有经过消化，不知不觉中写出了 Englinese. （An Englishman's version of Chinglish). Okay, it's a bad joke.  [Edited at 2012-06-05 03:38 GMT]
Steve,
It's certainly an excellent joke!
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ysun
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Local time: 00:53
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nigerose wrote:
你没有张道真《实用英语语法》（最新版）就算了。
这里围观的人多，我是孤军作战。感兴趣又不发言的同仁可以翻翻张道真《实用英语语法》（最新版）或者其他语法书判断一下。
不管怎样，这样的讨论是有益的。我相信比我水平高的同仁大有人在，就不知道为什么高手都不来了。我也到此为止，呵呵。
我确实没有张道真《实用英语语法》最新版，但还是有一本不算太旧的老版张道真《实用英语语法》。我相信，张道真先生不至于推翻他的老版本吧！其中有一些用现在分词短语做状语的例子，例如：
They stood there for an hour watching the game.
张道真《实用英语语法》中也有带逻辑主语的动名词短语，例如：
I certainly enjoyed Tom’s singing.
在原译者的译文 “This can reduce the starting current of the motor causing insulation damage, reducing the mechanical torque damage to the unit” 中，宾语就是 “the starting current”，而不是“带逻辑主语的动名词短语”。
[Edited at 2012-06-05 08:58 GMT]
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ysun
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| Another example using a present participle phrase as an adverbial modifier | Jun 5, 2012 |
The engineer identified the problem, using the latest technology.
[Edited at 2012-06-05 08:21 GMT]
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nigerose
Čína
Local time: 13:53
čínština -> angličtina
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我最后最后说一句。
我们之间讨论到现在已经没什么可以讨论了，我以后不会再回你的帖子。我敢请同仁查语法书判断谁对谁错，是因为我有信心认为我的判断是正确的。不要以为我不回你的帖子就表明我认输了。
[修改时间: 2012-06-06 00:52 GMT]
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ysun
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刚浏览了一下各位发的内容，发现其实没有实质性的太大分歧。论坛是各抒已见之地，发表一下各自不同的看法本没什么。但大家皆是译界资深专业人士，请不必过于介怀。发言用词还望礼让三分！此话题请勿再深入。衷心感谢大家的积极参与精神！
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wherestip
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| Syntactically ambiguous | Jun 5, 2012 |
James_xia wrote:
刚浏览了一下各位发的内容，发现其实没有实质性的太大分歧。论坛是各抒已见之地，发表一下各自不同的看法本没什么。但大家皆是译界资深专业人士，请不必过于介怀。发言用词还望礼让三分！此话题请勿再深入。衷心感谢大家的积极参与精神！
I agree with James. There's really not any big disagreements in this discussion except for the grammatical analysis of the first half of the native English speaker's not-so-well-worded sentence.
Please allow me to say one more thing as a reminder: there is such a thing as syntactic ambiguity.
Please reference the following wiki page link that gives some examples ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_linguistic_example_sentences
Syntactic ambiguity
Demonstrations of ambiguity between alternate syntactic structures underlying a sentence.
The man saw the boy with the binoculars.
They are hunting dogs.
Free whales.
Police help dog bite victim.
He saw that gas can explode.
Turn right here.
We saw her duck.
Hole found in changing room wall; police are looking into it.
In Animal Crackers, Groucho Marx (as Captain Rufus T. Spaulding) quipped: "I once shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I'll never know."[5]
As a special treat for our Easter service, Mrs. Smith will lay an egg on the altar.
Ship sails tomorrow.
Book stays in London.
Wanted a nurse for a baby about twenty years old.
The girl in the car that needed water is waiting.
Did you ever hear the story about the blind carpenter who picked up his hammer and saw?
Syntactic ambiguity and incrementality
Demonstrations of how incremental syntactic parsing leads to infelicitous constructions and interpretations.
Reduced relative clauses: The horse raced past the barn fell.
While the man was hunting the deer ran through the forest.
The old man the boats.
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Phil Hand
Čína
Local time: 13:53
čínština -> angličtina
| Ambiguous=暧昧？ | Jun 5, 2012 |
wherestip wrote:
there is such a thing as syntactic ambiguity.
夜店妹妹跟我说，一次性付500元；我说，可以啊，这么小的金额本来不会分次付款，问题是你在卖什么呢？
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jyuan_us
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 01:53
Člen (2005)
angličtina -> čínština
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ysun wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
The first one is not a correct sentence. Could you please explain why? In other words, what is wrong? [Edited at 2012-06-02 23:44 GMT]
降低引起绝缘损害的电机的启动电流；
降低电机的启动电流，引起绝缘损害；
降低引起绝缘损害的电机启动电流
三种都违背常理。
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ysun
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Local time: 00:53
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| Thank you very much for your explanation! | Jun 5, 2012 |
jyuan_us wrote: ysun wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
The first one is not a correct sentence. Could you please explain why? In other words, what is wrong? [Edited at 2012-06-02 23:44 GMT] 第一句的3种回译 降低引起绝缘损害的电机的启动电流； 降低电机的启动电流，引起绝缘损害； 降低引起绝缘损害的电机启动电流 三种都违背常理。
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wherestip
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| No need to lecture | Jun 6, 2012 |
nigerose wrote:
嗯，语言中的确存在“syntactic ambiguity”的问题。但context可以消除“syntactic ambiguity”。 Context！Context！ 只可意会，不可言传。
Yes, indeed. Without context, I wouldn't even have given your position the consideration I have been giving so far.
As I said before, IMO, it's hard to say that the sentence is completely wrong, yet it is still a poorly translated sentence in many aspects - lack of clarity (or too much ambiguity, 太不明确) being one of them.
[Edited at 2012-06-06 12:45 GMT]
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ysun
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wherestip wrote: nigerose wrote:
嗯，语言中的确存在“syntactic ambiguity”的问题。但context可以消除“syntactic ambiguity”。 Context！Context！ 只可意会，不可言传。
Yes, indeed. Without context, I wouldn't even have given the consideration of your position I have been giving so far.
Steve,
As a matter of fact, I provided a link to the full text of the journal article two days ago. It's likely that it was completely ignored by some people.
http://www.docin.com/p-200912694.html
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